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Is it time to ostracise China?

I try to buy as little from China as possible. I know that’s virtually impossible. I don’t mind paying more for a quality product from elsewhere but it’s very difficult due to the race to the bottom for cheap tat the west is addicted to. I remember an old colleague retuning from a visit to the Foxconn factory, said it was pretty shocking, like a battery farm.

The more I think about C19, the more I think one day we’ll realise it was a deliberate, modern act of war. They don’t need battleships or fighter jets, it’s biological and cyber threats which will destroy the west. China are disciplined and effective, their govt really isn’t worried about losing a relative handful of people to achieve complete and utter carnage in the west which is far from over. When things have settled down, another will appear. Apologies for the pessimism.
 
I haven't looked up the numbers, but I assume that China gets a vast amount of income from making stuff for the rest of the world - I can't see why they would deliberately knacker the global economy.
 
An illustration of the CCP's favourite way of negotiating with protesters - even in NZ:


"Wang Feng, the executive chairman of the New Zealand (China) Federation of Comrades-in-arms under the New Zealand Federation of Chinese Organizations, attacked the disabled Kiwi who supported Falun Gong"

AFAIK there were no legal consequences.
 
Think this comes down to way of life, and which version you subscribe to. Is the Western version perfect, no. Has it got a lot to answer for? Yes. Does it produce dolts like Trump and Boris on occasion? Yes, but on the whole it is better than the version Xi is peddling (have been to China and have done business with China). Xi and his government want to be the world's dominant power and are keen to undermine the West. They have openly stated as much - Communism + plus state sponsored capitalism trumps the West’s tired old model of democracy and free-market economics. Xi also has wants to revive China’s imperialist past (a bit like our own Brexiters quaint as their misguided ambitions may be). The Chinese aren't building islands in the South China Sea and threatening Taiwan for shits and giggles. Comparing China to other countries, e.g Russia, is a bit of a false equivalence because China's economy is larger and tightly integrated into the world’s economy (Russia's being much smaller and largely old-school resource dependent). Not sure what to do about it all but the West, having welcomed China into the fold over the last 30-odd years (one strategy), is now beginning to wake up - which is a start.
 
The Chinese must be laughing at the facile hypocrisy on display.
The British didn't have their empire?
Or the Americans try to bomb assassinate subvert governments half way round the world?
 
clifftaylor said:
I haven't looked up the numbers, but I assume that China gets a vast amount of income from making stuff for the rest of the world - I can't see why they would deliberately knacker the global economy.
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China’s internal economy has grown so much over the last two decades that it might be getting closer to the point that it is self-supporting so concerns over diminished overseas trade may not be such a threat.
 
Kirk said:
Think this comes down to way of life, and which version you subscribe to. Is the Western version perfect, no. Has it got a lot to answer for? Yes. Does it produce dolts like Trump and Boris on occasion? Yes, but on the whole it is better than the version Xi is peddling (have been to China and have done business with China). Xi and his government want to be the world's dominant power and are keen to undermine the West. They have openly stated as much - Communism + plus state sponsored capitalism trumps the West’s tired old model of democracy and free-market economics. Xi also has wants to revive China’s imperialist past (a bit like our own Brexiters quaint as their misguided ambitions may be). The Chinese aren't building islands in the South China Sea and threatening Taiwan for shits and giggles. Comparing China to other countries, e.g Russia, is a bit of a false equivalence because China's economy is larger and tightly integrated into the world’s economy (Russia's being much smaller and largely old-school resource dependent). Not sure what to do about it all but the West, having welcomed China into the fold over the last 30-odd years (one strategy), is now beginning to wake up - which is a start.
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Some very good points here, but not sure about "China's imperialist past" unless you are referring to the domination by the Han and later dynasties of the various groups which comprise China as we know it today. I suppose they could be accused of cultural imperialism given the written language came to dominate the surrounding areas, including Japan. I'm not aware of much foreign military intervention by China, apart from Korea and Vietnam where they were aiding allies.
 
Snufkin said:
China’s internal economy has grown so much over the last two decades that it might be getting closer to the point that it is self-supporting so concerns over diminished overseas trade may not be such a threat.
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It was always their stated aim to build up a big internal market, and reduce reliance on exports.
 
We can't ostracize China because we currently rely on their output too much.
Which leaves making angry political noises.
It seems pointless to me because the Chinese state media will just use these empty statements to show how China is under threat from those malicious Westerners.
 
Snufkin said:
China’s internal economy has grown so much over the last two decades that it might be getting closer to the point that it is self-supporting so concerns over diminished overseas trade may not be such a threat.
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Not sure they could feed their 1.4 b population without importing thousands tonnes of grain from around the world.
 
wacko said:
Are you seriously suggesting trying to starve a nuclear power with the largest armed forces ?
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An existential threat like that would be met with a massive show of force. China has been busy using investment-led soft power all around the globe: deep water ports, railways, roads and bridges, anywhere there’s raw materials.
 
TheDecameron said:
An existential threat like that would be met with a massive show of force. China has been busy using investment-led soft power all around the globe: deep water ports, railways, roads and bridges, anywhere there’s raw materials.
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Indeed: One Belt One Road

220px-One-belt-one-road.svg.png


I think many in the West don't have the faintest idea of the level of investment in infrastructure by the PRC, both at home and around the world.
 
China is bearing down heavily on Australia at the moment. So all my wine is Australian until further notice. In practice, I can’t do much more. I’ve read a fair bit about China and am sympathetic towards them but I can’t see any alternative to facing up to them in the current situation. There is some equivalence so there is a possibllity for a reasonable outcome. When the Soviet Union had its crisis how we gloated and moved NATO up to its borders. Now our legacy is a sulking and very dangerous enemy on our borders. Let’s hope we manage this a lot better.
 
I hope the last meeting in Alaska between the US and the CCP was perceived as a final wake up call. What they are doing now to the Uyghurs could be what will happen to people in other countries if they don't bend a knee in front of Xi.
 
MikeMA said:
Indeed: One Belt One Road

220px-One-belt-one-road.svg.png


I think many in the West don't have the faintest idea of the level of investment in infrastructure by the PRC, both at home and around the world.
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The only considered objection to it (and I’ve seen several of China’s projects in Africa and Asia) that I’ve heard, was from someone in Laos where they were considering a Chinese-built railway line. Their objection was that China wanted control over a 6km corridor through which their railway would run. You have to see that in the context of what he said later in the conversation- that Lao children were still being killed by munitions dropped by the USA on their tiny country 50 years earlier. 20,000 civilians have been killed alone since the war ended. America dropped 2 million tons of ordinance on a country no bigger than Michiagan. They’re not going to be receptive to complaints of Chinese hegemony from the West.
 
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