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Integrated valve amp for ESL988's

bernardhepworth

bernardhepworth

pfm Member
Hi

My brother who has retired and has lots of time on his hands, is interested updating his system.

His system has a Meridian Media Core 200 streamer, Quad 99 pre and power amp and Quad 988's

He is looking to change his pre and power to a valve integrated. His budget is around £1.5k either s/h or new. He plays a wide range of music from jazz to electronic.

What would people advise?
 
I suggest a Prima Luna integrated. Their previous TOTL model was the Dialogue Premium HP, which sold new for $4399; the Dialogue Premium listed for $3399. The Prologue Premium listed for right around 2400 USD and the Prologue Classic about 1800. I have heard the Dialogue Premium with Quad 2805s and it was superb. I would think any of the above listed integrateds would be a good place to start. Obviously, his choice will depend on availability in the used market. Prima Luna has a new series, the EVO. Models are numbered as 100, 200, 300 and 400 in roughly corresponding order in the lineup. Prices for the EVO series are higher than the previous series. Reviews and user comments for the Prima Luna stuff are pretty enthusiastic.
 
One other comment - I've settled on a 909 to drive my ESL 63s and will also use that amp to drive my soon new-to-me 2805s. I like the way it sounds and appreciate that the 909 is not bothered by the circuit clamping mechanism in the Quads. At least, I don't think it is... Perhaps your brother would find a new tube preamp, like the Supratek Chardonnay, satisfactory. I've found that a good tube preamp has really made a difference in my system.
 
bernardhepworth said:
Hi

My brother who has retired and has lots of time on his hands, is interested updating his system.

His system has a Meridian Media Core 200 streamer, Quad 99 pre and power amp and Quad 988's

He is looking to change his pre and power to a valve integrated. His budget is around £1.5k either s/h or new. He plays a wide range of music from jazz to electronic.

What would people advise?
Click to expand...

If I were you I would telephone quad and see what they say! I'm sure they'll be happy to share their experience with you.

Another possibility to think about is that he may be able to get the sound he's looking for by using a powerful solid state power amp, even a Quad one, and having a valve pre-amp.
 
Any Quad from 909 to QSP or Artera. Peter Walker did not have romantic notions about valve amplifiers and I would not have such notions either.
(Previous ESL63 owner - my wife kicked them out.)
 
The best types of valve amps I have heard with ESLs from the 63 onwards are generally push pull amps using KT88 output valves.

If soldering is in someone's skill set a World Designs WD88VA works very well.
 
I used Canary Audio big 300B push-pull monos at 50W/side - this is the kind of power you should be looking for in a tube amp.
 
bernardhepworth said:
What would people advise?
Click to expand...

If possible, stick to the Quads meanwhile trying out a valve amp

Quad amplifiers are obvious made for electrostats
There are more powerfull version or mono if more power is required

I understand if lower box-count is wanted but many valve amplifiers may, at first, sound inviting with georgeous mids
Lacking a bit in flow and coherence, timIng etc
For me this become tiring and my time with valve amplication is long gone
Don't take this as a general statement, my own experience only, and taste which of course differ from others.

Usually I'd recommend upgrade your source
 
Valve amps are good choices to drive Quads because they have always been stable into Quad loads. Modern high quality solid state amps are as well, but Quad/Valve combination is a tradition.
 
Zombie said:
Indeed a very good piece of advice.

The ESLs have lower distorsion than valve amps, so why add distorsion?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily! There are a few valve power amps with <0.05% THD around. It's the output transformers that are the issue, not the valves. Valve pre amps and phono stages etc can be made with <0.01% THD no problem.
 
Thanks for the advice so far.

Simplifying his system is one of my brothers criteria. I have told him to have a look at a grippy transistor like a Heed or Hegal as well as valves.
 
Zombie said:
The ESLs have lower distorTion than valve amps, so why add distorTion?
Click to expand...

You're comparing apple to pears; they're two entirely different animals. ESLs were developed with valved amps, so why would they be incompatible?

E.A.R. have made a number of integrateds; all very nice too, and completely synergistic with Quad ESLs. T.de P. developed various models, plus the 509s which I have powering my 2905s , with the 63. Reliable, run comparatively cool and have access to cheap servicing in Cambridgeshire. Also (just) within budget.

My friend runs the 899 int'd with his 2812 and previously 63.
 
Some claim that the "valve sound" is actually the output transformer. The 988 has transformers on the input so no need for one more.
 
mandryka said:
Are you sure?
Click to expand...

Not the 509s; they're monoblocs. At least a couple of T.deP.'s integrateds can be found in that price ball-park.

mandryka said:
We're talking about 988s.
Click to expand...

So what? They're the forerunner of my 2905s, only smaller. They're all developed from Peter Walker's original ESL concept and don't differ that much. Nor does the new 2912 (or 2812) which is simply a refinement of their predecessors. Solid state is fine, but I believe the o.p. mentioned valves.

PerF said:
ESL57 yes
Click to expand...

I rather think that valved Quads were used for at least the initial designs of the 63 but I could be wrong here.
 
Zombie said:
Some claim that the "valve sound" is actually the output transformer. The 988 has transformers on the input so no need for one more.
Click to expand...

There are valved amps and valved amps, and they differ as much, if not more than s/s (class A excepted). Some E.A.R. (and esp. the 509s, 899 etc. are at the s/s end of the valved sound; single ended, 300Bs at the other, I'd guess,.

Do you have a problem with trannies (either variety)? For me, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, regardless of how many trannies are involved.:)
 
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