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Integrated valve amp circa £2.5k?

I have heard Audionote's OTO integrated a few times in Audionote systems and always liked what I did hear.

However, finding a price is like trying to extract a state secret.
 
The power amps where it's at IME. A valve pre, sometimes of less than ideal resolution, transparency and tending to "round things off" somewhat, can make a typical "par for the course" SS power amp sound rather more "friendly" and "warm" but two wrongs certainly don't make a right... a REALLY good power amp, that doesn't sound "flat", "grey", "sterile", "hard" etc with a genuinely transparent pre (whether valve, SS or passive) is a much better proposition that will get you much closer to the music IMHO.

A good valve amp, EL34's to allow for Sara's being not the most efficient etc, on its 4 Ohm taps, should do just great. No current limiting from protection circuitry etc when the going gets tough;) Something of Radford STA25 standard with good engineering and plenty of negative feedback by valve standards ideally. Naim amps have a 0.22Ohm resistor at the output and a damping factor of only around 16 with 4Ohm speakers.. an STA25 will match or beat this!
Many of the modern "lets make it really valvey and use only 10 dB feedback with cheap transformers and if it then has 2% THD and a damping factor of 3 than that's even more pukka valvey" would NOT do! EAR-509's would laugh off Sara's.

On the Croft thing well I made many past posts about what the driving capabilities are and what distortion to expect into various loads and why output impedance and ability to drive real loads often don't "match up" with valve pre amps etc in older threads...
 
Reminds me of the Audio Innovations integrated I had in the 90's ... EL34's ... 20 Watts or so with back wind. Ruark Sabres and Trichord CD player. I remember enjoying it tremendously until I had to sell everything after marriage break down.

I was, at the time a 'little bit' obsessed with Hifi, not helped by that a good friend managed my local branch of Movement Audio (long gone). At one stage I must have had 8 new amplifiers and several CD players at home which I dropped back on Tuesday morning.

The Audio Innovations was a way out of the madness, fuelled by reading too many magazines. It replaced a John Shearne Phase 2 which came 'a close 2nd'.

It was a trade in. The manager called me saying they have something I should try. One trip later I bagged it and that was it. Had it for about 3 years. The Genesis and Ruarks followed perhaps 6 months after the AI arrived.

I never returned to valves after that except for a buffer stage.
 
Best I’ve ever heard valves was a Naim NAC12s driving Radford STA25. Far too many seem to be designed to sound like additional reverb.
 
I followed Tony's rebuild of his Leaks. Whilst he has my respect for doing so it is hardly the most straight forward solution. Other than time it requires some knowledge. Failing that I'm sure a pro re-build will not be cheap. Personally, I'd go for the 'already refurbished' option but even that is a minefield and requires a good amount of experience, probably.

Those Leaks look fantastic though.
 
I don’t understand why anyone would suggest changing the preamp. The power amp is under powered for the speakers and the turntable is so far off the pace it’s ludicrous.

The system is mis balanced and needs work but if there’s one part of the system that’s ok it’s the pre.

Interesting...

My P3 has had a few upgrades (Tango Spinner sub-platter and Neo PSU) plus a Rega Ania cart so (at risk of getting shot down in flames for saying so...) it's approaching P6 territory. The next logical step would be a P8.
The Kairn always seems to get good reviews, especially for it's phono stage so agree that it's probably the strongest link in the chain.
I've read plenty about the LK140 being a much better power amp than the LK85, I don't tend to listen at higher volume levels but understand that there is more to increased power in terms of sound quality than pure volume. A Klout would be nice of course...
 
A P3 is approaching A P6 without any ‘upgrades’ all the Rega turntables sound similar.

If you’ve got Sara 9s the 85 will cope but original Sara’s are a very difficult load.
 
A P3 is approaching A P6 without any ‘upgrades’ all the Rega turntables sound similar.

If you’ve got Sara 9s the 85 will cope but original Sara’s are a very difficult load.

The Saras are the originals (with XLR inputs), maybe I need to think about a deck and a power amp upgrade rather than going for an integrated vale amp for the time being. A Klout and a P8 would just about sit within my budget.
 
maybe I need to think about a deck and a power amp upgrade rather than going for an integrated vale am

Never had Saras, but reading between lots of lines, not only here on PFM, invest in some beefier power and see where that gets you. At least in the short term, you could well be so chuffed that upgraditis will be in remission for quite a while. :)
 
Best I’ve ever heard valves was a Naim NAC12s driving Radford STA25. Far too many seem to be designed to sound like additional reverb.


With a 2.5k budget this is the route I'd take. I'd probably go with a valve pre but that's just my preference. If you buy right the Radford will only go up in value. They are superb too :)
 
After the helpful advice here (particularly regarding how the Sara's will work better with a more powerful Power Amp) I've bitten the bullet and bought an LK140 which arrives next Friday. I'll post once I have had a chance for the system to settle in.
Next step I think will be a P8.
 
Mmmmh, I thought the whole point was to 'scratch a valve amplifier itch' rather than the predictable change to another Linn amp to match an elderly set of speakers?

Opportunity missed?
 


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