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INTEGRATED SS AMP TO REPLACE VALVE AMP AND PHONO STAGE.

MikeMA

MikeMA

pfm Member
My main record playing system currently comprises a Michell Gyrodec SE/SME 309/AT33PTG/EAR834P/Jadis Orchestra/Harbeth HLP3ESRs.

I'm very happy with the system, particularly since installing the SME arm, but looking to the future - I'm not getting any younger! - I'm thinking I should perhaps move away from messing about with valves in favour of a fully integrated solid state amp, preferably with a decent phono stage to reduce box count.

I've been following the Luxman/Accuphase/Yamaha thread with interest, and I'm very tempted by the the Luxman or Accuphase options, but what other amps should I be thinking about? I've no particular hang-ups about class this, or class that, but it will need to compare favourably with the Jadis. I've no fixed budget in mind but £5k would probably be the most I'd want to spend.

I know....it's like asking how long is a piece of string.......but give me some pointers!
 
I have a Luxman L590 AXII.
No doubt it is a very good SS amp.
However, it is still very much just that, a SS amp, and therefore gives a fundamentally different presentation to a valve amp.
Regardless of the inaccurate hyperbole some reviewers would have you believe.
 
If you like what you have why change, you don't have to keep changing valves, I am not sure you would prefer a solid state if you have lived with valves for a long time.

I have the Quad II Classics and QC24 as well as Linn and Naim and in my system the solid state is faster and maybe a little more detailed.

However valves with the right front end and speakers take a lot of beating and you can listen for hours with them, no pun intended, but they do have a lovely warm sound rather than the rather cold analytical sound solid state can sometimes have.

I am sure others will give you different opinions on solid state and valves, however I would stick with what you have if you like it.
 
Hi,

I think I know the very thing you are after: either a Copland CSA 150 or 100. They use SS in the output stage and a single triode in the intermediate stage in order to get the best of both worlds.

They have received brilliant reviews recently and go for 5k and 4K respectively. Nottingham HI-FI have a 100 for 3k on that auction site. The only down side is their dealer network seems patchy and the reason why I haven’t had a listen to one myself yet .

Ray
 
What music do you listen to? If it’s kind of singer / songwriter, acoustic, rock and that kind of ilk, my suggestion would be to stick with valves.

If you have a broader taste with perhaps driving bass lines and lots going on then perhaps a solid state may satisfy to certain extent. You may lose some of the presence you get with valves and the system may leave you a little cold though.

Be very careful is my advice and a home demo will be an absolute must.
 
Try the Sugden Masterclass for sure. It has a MM phono input but the full matching phono stage is a separate box
 
I'm contemplating going the other way, having ditched tubes aged 63 for the same, enough faff, reason.I'm looking at a Leben 3 or600 and a deck with a built in phono stage, believing that a deck like the Technics 1500c could probably handle an AT33 for example very well. Less boxes , less deck hassle and that valve sound. I think my Luxman 505 is an amazingly good amp. Certainly one of the best SS amps I've ever heard, BUT I will say that although it's phono stage is excellent, there are better in the open market, so if top top vinyl reproduction is vital for you, then I'd have a bit more of a think. If excellent is good enough then you'll be fine. The AT33 for example is just the right sort of cart for the Luxman's stage IMO, but if a Lyra Atlas ever tempts you, you'll be wanting to add another box :)
2nd, no SS amp I've ever heard can really 'do' the sound of a SET valve amp. It's a very swings and roundabouts affair as I'm sure you know but if you want some of those harmonic and hair tingling moments then I'd be looking at Luxman, Sugden, or Accuphase, and esp the latter. My recent experience is very limited however. I do know that my Lux flipping LOVED the Harb 3's when I heard that combo at a dealership.

It's just that I think tubes really are not a hassle at all if you buy a Japanese valve amp from a good company on the basis of sound at audition and then forget tube rolling. My old Luxman SQ38u ran without a single twitch for 8 years. 1 tube change to the same valves in that time, which took 10 mins, and i pulled it apart once a year to clean the tube pins and contacts. That incidentally has the same phono stage built in as the SS Luxmans.
 
Where are you in the country Mike? Could be fun to hear how the 834P sounds with my Yamaha AS3000 and it’s phono stage or my Rega Aria as an ex 834P owner and would give you one reference point. I’m not looking to change my phono per se, just mutual interest.
 
At this budget with small Harbeths, I'd just try a Rega IO, sorry nothing even close to budget.
If you like it I'm sure the Aethos will sing, no phono inside though.
Arkward remote volume too.

Sugden as mentioned above, these are superb.

I have had valve amps earlier in life, prefer above solutions, only a Leben, Radford or Croft tempted me, and those could be interesting for you, maybe a restored Leak.
 
I've been on the same journey as you over the past year, Mike, and for partly similar reasons, so I've done a heck of a lot of reading etc. (and a thread here) to nail down the class A (think it has to be a class A to come near valves) amplifier to replace my two EAR 509s. In my case, though, I wanted to keep my 912 valved pre; partly as it's no trouble and partly because of its on-board MC/MM stages (x2) Also, received wisdom has it that valved pre and s/s power is the better combination.

I was, however, sorely tempted by a ridiculously cheap Gamut integrated in the classifieds for ages (recently sold). If I had wanted to completely change horses, that would have been the one (except it was silver !!! Don't like silver). I also went into the Sugden line-up and, only partly because they're British, still keep my eyes out. I have ESLs so there needs to be a bit of welly; well, some at least!

Take your time, do a lot of reading and follow the classifieds. As I gained from chopping out my Naim 552 and 2 x 135s for my current kit, I'd want to retain the sonic presentation that I have rather than revert to s/s, though I've not had class A s/s before. Sugden does seem to be the affordable and reliable way to go but there is other, and possibly better stuff out there (Gamut, e.g.)
 
If I were to simplify my system I 'd be looking at an integrated by Vitus (2nd hand give the new price).

Given your present EAR/Jadis set up you are likely to find a solid state integrated (even a great one like Vitus or Sugden) a bit of a culture shock. I think you really owe it to yourself to go the rounds and listen a lot before changing.
 
uncl_nigel said:
If I were to simplify my system I 'd be looking at an integrated by Vitus (2nd hand give the new price).

Given your present EAR/Jadis set up you are likely to find a solid state integrated (even a great one like Vitus or Sugden) a bit of a culture shock. I think you really owe it to yourself to go the rounds and listen a lot before changing.
Click to expand...

Not really, I've owned a Jadis Orchestra Reference and it's not a soft soggy sound. In fact it has or ( my reference version had) a solid state first stage.

If it helps the op I went from the Jadis to a Luxman L550A2 then to an older Accuphase. The Luxman and the Accuphase are nice amps but there is a snobbery tax calculated into their prices. There are other big solid state Japanese amplifiers in a similar vein that are every bit as good.

I settled on a Yamaha AS2100 amp, the build quality is every bit as good as it's more coveted cousins and to my ears it sounds equally as good.
 
Personally I would not go with the Luxman or Accuphase and pick something else for the Harbeth P3ESR . Although I do not own the P3s, I have listened to it several times before. Based on my experience with the SHL5 and SHL5+, I find the Harbeth to sound more open, dynamic and live with amps which have a more colourful character. I find the Harbeth to sound a tad dull with the neutral character of the Luxman L-590AXII. Perhaps the Class AB integrateds from Luxman and Accuphase may be a better match but I would not take the risk if you can't listen prior to committing to a purchase.

Personally it may be wise to stick with the Jadis valve amp if you find the P3ESR to sound great with it. Solid state amps usually sound slightly darker with reduced high frequency extension when compared to tube amps. The extension in the treble which gives notes the illuminating glow. Apart from the Jadis, the Harbeth also sounds good with the Leben CS300 and CS600. The Harbeth sound warmer / darker with solid state amps.
 
I went down this route and use a Denon PMA850. I recently demoed a Sugden Masterclass IA4 for a week and preferred the Denon and it has seen off the challenge of several current high-end amplifiers at bake-offs I have hosted. It has a 3 input phono stage and has driven every speaker I have owned or tried, from B&W801 to NS1000 to Kef Reference, Celestion, Revel etc.
 
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