In-Line attenuators
- Thread starter TLS
- Start date
darrenyeats
pfm Member
Which DAC and transport(s)? Digital attenuation would be my first choice.
Squeezebox Duet to Chord Qute EX to Nait 2.
steveledzep
pfm Member
I've used Goldenjacks when the cd output was too high for the amplifier input. Too loud at under 9 o'clock, 11 o'clock(ish) after attenuation. Satisfactory, enhanced sound quality to me because the system wasn't shouting at me !
Thanks. I think i'll give it a try as i can't go much over 8 o'clock before it gets to loud! Now i have to figure if i need 10db or 20db of attenuation.
The Far North
pfm Member
Pretty sure there will be other sources of information, but the Russ Andrews site gives some thoughts on this.
http://www.russandrews.com/viewinde...&customer_id=PAA2696016114846CZOEZIWTSURSYXZC
http://www.russandrews.com/viewinde...&customer_id=PAA2696016114846CZOEZIWTSURSYXZC
Michael J
pfm Member
Useful information. The input sensitivity of the Nait is 75mv so according to the graph I should go for 15 to 20db of attenuation.
It's useful information, especially if you're prepared to pay three or four times what Rothwell or Goldenjacks charge for attenuators.
Rothwell would probably change the resistor in theirs if you asked, or get hifi-collective to make you some up to order (unless you can do it yourself).
Rothwell would probably change the resistor in theirs if you asked, or get hifi-collective to make you some up to order (unless you can do it yourself).
I can get Rothwell's locally and they seem reasonably priced...
mr sneff
pfm Member
I've used the Rothwell attenuators with a Quad 34 that was too loud on the first 1/4 of the volume control, the attenuators gave me a much more useable range of use of the volume control and I couldn't discern and loss of SQ. A lot cheaper than the one Russ Andrews is selling.
davidsrsb
pfm Member
Attenuating to get some useful volume control travel (and avoiding overloading any input buffer) is a good thing. Choosing the attenuator impedance is the problem. Too high and it can increase the amplifier distortion and cut high frequencies. Too low and it may load the source too much, increasing distortion and cutting low frequencies
I had the same Nait-2 low level balance problem in the 1st few notches of the volume control & is just too loud at such a low level
In-line or in-plug attenuators are only another step in the volume control circuit & provided good quality 1 or 2% resistors are used it does not affect the SQ.
The attenuation must be done correctly with an L-Pad (2 resistors - 1 series 1 shunt).
I have made my own in a DIN-DIN, fiddly & not for the faint hearted or if you have a handful of thumbs
I set it the level at 19dB, assuming your problem area is 7 o'clock on the volume control, the same volume is now around 8 o'clock
FlashBack now make them, RCA-DIN & DIN-DIN
http://www.flashbacksales.co.uk/acatalog/att_premiere_cables.html
In-line or in-plug attenuators are only another step in the volume control circuit & provided good quality 1 or 2% resistors are used it does not affect the SQ.
The attenuation must be done correctly with an L-Pad (2 resistors - 1 series 1 shunt).
I have made my own in a DIN-DIN, fiddly & not for the faint hearted or if you have a handful of thumbs
I set it the level at 19dB, assuming your problem area is 7 o'clock on the volume control, the same volume is now around 8 o'clock
FlashBack now make them, RCA-DIN & DIN-DIN
http://www.flashbacksales.co.uk/acatalog/att_premiere_cables.html
darrenyeats
pfm Member
I've got some Rothwell RCA attenuators somewhere, used to use them with my SB3.
Since the Nait 2 uses a resistor ladder volume control (the best kind BTW) it effectively acts similar to a fixed attenuator anyway. Adding another resistor network (attenuator) into the signal path will give you more usable volume granularity ... but nothing in the way of sound quality. You're putting an additional resistor network in the signal path.
Now, digital attenuation is worse in THEORY because the signal is reduced and the noise isn't, effectively curtailing dynamic range of the DAC. BUT all physical resistor networks exhibit thermal noise and alter the impedance matching of source to load, and IMHE digital volume control has actually been more transparent in practice.
Up to 48db of attenuation, any degradation of 16 bit digital audio is analog degradation, there's no loss of digital resolution.
However, the less digital attenuation the better obviously so it is definitely worth trying to get gear that is compatible in gain structure. Effective tactics are:
- Looking at specs before buying
- DACs that can vary reference voltage (Weiss)
- Power amps with variable input sensitivity (where resistor values change, not topology, between any and all settings)
Basically anything that doesn't involve inserting extra physical resistor networks into the signal path, IMHO.
People argue about digital cables, power supplies etc ... that's all insignificant next to anything placed in the actual line signal path, IMHO.
Since the Nait 2 uses a resistor ladder volume control (the best kind BTW) it effectively acts similar to a fixed attenuator anyway. Adding another resistor network (attenuator) into the signal path will give you more usable volume granularity ... but nothing in the way of sound quality. You're putting an additional resistor network in the signal path.
Now, digital attenuation is worse in THEORY because the signal is reduced and the noise isn't, effectively curtailing dynamic range of the DAC. BUT all physical resistor networks exhibit thermal noise and alter the impedance matching of source to load, and IMHE digital volume control has actually been more transparent in practice.
Up to 48db of attenuation, any degradation of 16 bit digital audio is analog degradation, there's no loss of digital resolution.
However, the less digital attenuation the better obviously so it is definitely worth trying to get gear that is compatible in gain structure. Effective tactics are:
- Looking at specs before buying
- DACs that can vary reference voltage (Weiss)
- Power amps with variable input sensitivity (where resistor values change, not topology, between any and all settings)
Basically anything that doesn't involve inserting extra physical resistor networks into the signal path, IMHO.
People argue about digital cables, power supplies etc ... that's all insignificant next to anything placed in the actual line signal path, IMHO.
Mongeddavid
pfm Member
I have used them between an spdif convertor and DAC. I thought it cleaned up the sound a tad with less hash and a bit more focus [ not that it was bad in that respect before ] I used a 10db attenuator anything more prevented a stable lock. Not sure if / why it has an effect but for just a few quid outlay its worth playing around with.