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Hydrogen-powered cars

I agree Hydrogen powered vehicles have to be considered as a viable alternative to fossil fuels. The sticking point will be distribution and supply.
(Also the price of these vehicles)
 
They are inevitable.
Electric cars using battery power will go the way of the fax machine - a great idea at the time but superceded.
Hyundai and Toyota are already producing hydrogen powered cars.
 
AIUI, the current (no pun intended) thoughts are that cars will likely use electric, and hydrogen will be reserved for those with higher energy demands and / or cover long distances (lorries etc).

As an aside, BMW got there first with the 'Hydrogen 7' in 2006, albeit with it used in an ICE, not fuel cell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Hydrogen_7

Hydrogen has an available distribution network already (filling stations) but what needs to be sorted out is to either use less energy to generate hydrogen or to ensure it is all made from renewable sources.
 
Slightly trickier than natural gas to handle, but not massively so. Gas engines have been around since Noah was a lad too, just not hydrogen-fueled ones.

The taxis in Colchester used propane when I was a lad, 50 years ago. New Scientist (etc.) was full of hydrogen powered research at the time, it made Tomorrow's World. The hassle then and now is storage of enough for long distance travel without needing a huge tank. The last proposal that I remember was a metal sinter that absorbed enormous quantities of hydrogen and the exhaust ran around the tank so that it warmed the tank, to liberate the hydrogen. Starting used an electric blanket round the tank.
 
Hydrogen has a much lower round trip efficiency than battery storage, so use in cars would be a step back (especially with further development of the charging network in terms of destination and domestic chargers, being able to charge where you are going for a day effectively doubles battery range). As above, the main use will be as a form of energy storage (although domestic battery installation can also help there) and heavier vehicles.
 
gingermrkettle said:
Hydrogen has a much lower round trip efficiency than battery storage, so use in cars would be a step back (especially with further development of the charging network in terms of destination and domestic chargers, being able to charge where you are going for a day effectively doubles battery range). As above, the main use will be as a form of energy storage (although domestic battery installation can also help there) and heavier vehicles.
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The problem with batteries is the world has nothing like enough commercially exploitable raw materials, they take ages to charge and weigh far too much.
Batteries are a lunatic answer to transport. Inconvenient in every possible way - the enemy of personal, and much other, transport.
 
Good article and some interesting ideas. I think the pure EV will not die out as for most usage, home charging and never using filling stations will cover 90% of private car use. Having Hydrogen FCEV or even HICEV will be great for commercial use and those who need more range flexibility.

I love the idea of wind/wave power cracking seawater into hydrogen and using it as an energy store. The inefficiencies are immense but the power source is effectively infinite.
 
Perhaps a reflection of how city-centric much of what makes public discussion anywhere, I am always struck by claims about average private trip lengths. Personally, I very seldom make a round trip of less than 35-40 miles and quite frequently more. There is very unlikely to be a personal transport solution, apart from a near direct equivalent to petrol/derv ICE, that I would contemplate owning, and unless free issue cars, along with some mechanism to park it easily, happen, I am never going to own more than one at any one time.
 
Hydrogen fueling is very slow as it involves compressing gas to 350 or 700 bar and cooling it. A closed loop and carbon neutral propane synthesis would be far more useful.
 
Hydrogen as a store of excess peak wind power is an interesting idea. However I would have thought that, rather than pipe it out to a filling network it would be easier to have hydrogen fired power plants use the stored hydrogen to meet peak electric demand. Fuel cell cars seems like a solution looking for a problem. EVs and hybrids seem like a better solution for transportation.
 
I am certain that all of the variants are being considered, somewhere.

Wind, solar, tidal and wave power are not free unfortunately, even if almost infinite and in themselves very close to carbon-neutral. The plant needed to harness them is not free nor having infinite life.

Bear in mind also that combustion-powered power stations are only around 40% efficient and not hugely more if linked into a CHP network.
 
Seeker_UK said:
If only there was some way you could increase its density, like bonding it to another element that releases energy when the bonds are broken.

Like carbon, say.;)
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Or, as I mentioned above, adsorb it onto some kind of substrate.

Your chemistry is also a bit out - breaking the C-H bond COSTS energy, oxidising a hydrocarbon, releases energy.
 
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