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How good is Well Tempered Simplex

Simon s said:
Anyone try it with An Audio Technica ART 9 ?
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Back when I used to read the WT forum I used a Dynavector 20(?) - the £500 job. I was wavering on the Koetsu wondering if it might be like feeding a donkey strawberries so tried to find any reference to the WT being outclassed by a cartridge and couldn’t. One contributor who’d tried a range of esoteric cartridges rather theatrically claimed that the WT could give any cartridge the ride of its life, and I believe that might be true.
 
Simon s said:
Does this apply to the Simplex as well ?
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Yes, you can do it, but I'd try to get as close as possible first by twisting the cartridge in the head shell mountings, there is a tiny amount of play when the bolts aren't tightened. This allows me to get my Hana SL seemingly spot on.

Once you adjust the length, you may have issues getting it back.

Great turntable by the way, hard to think of anything better near the usual SH price!
 
Chris Marshall said:
Yes, you can do it, but I'd try to get as close as possible first by twisting the cartridge in the head shell mountings, there is a tiny amount of play when the bolts aren't tightened. This allows me to get my Hana SL seemingly spot on.
Click to expand...

As I understand it, optimal stylus-to-pivot length and offset are determined exclusively by spindle-to-pivot distance. Strictly speaking, offset angle adjustment can't entirely compensate for incorrect stylus to pivot length. You can get close, but not optimal.

Since cartridge stylus-to-bolt distances can vary by 3mm or more, it helps to have a way of adjusting effective length. Most good arms use slots for the cartridge bolts.

The used Amadeus I bought did not have a stylus-to-pivot distance that was very appropriate to the spindle-to-pivot distance, and I wonder if that was a factor in the previous owner's decision to sell.

The tight grip which the golf-ball attachment has on the arm tube allows adjustment of azimuth as well as effective arm length. The suspension hoists also allow azimuth adjustment, but you need to line up headshell azimuth with suspension azimuth so that azimuth remains consistent across the record. I think some users may struggle a bit with these aspects of configuration.
 
sonddek said:
As I understand it, optimal stylus-to-pivot length and offset are determined exclusively by spindle-to-pivot distance. Strictly speaking, offset angle adjustment can't entirely compensate for incorrect stylus to pivot length. You can get close, but not optimal.

Since cartridge stylus-to-bolt distances can vary by 3mm or more, it helps to have a way of adjusting effective length. Most good arms use slots for the cartridge bolts.

The used Amadeus I bought did not have a stylus-to-pivot distance that was very appropriate to the spindle-to-pivot distance, and I wonder if that was a factor in the previous owner's decision to sell.

The tight grip which the golf-ball attachment has on the arm tube allows adjustment of azimuth as well as effective arm length. The suspension hoists also allow azimuth adjustment, but you need to line up headshell azimuth with suspension azimuth so that azimuth remains consistent across the record. I think some users may struggle a bit with these aspects of configuration.
Click to expand...

So i guess what i meant to ask was what cartridges work well with the Simplex arm (Versalex and Amadeus ?), without having to resort to adjusting the arm ?
 
sonddek said:
As I understand it, optimal stylus-to-pivot length and offset are determined exclusively by spindle-to-pivot distance. Strictly speaking, offset angle adjustment can't entirely compensate for incorrect stylus to pivot length. You can get close, but not optimal.

Since cartridge stylus-to-bolt distances can vary by 3mm or more, it helps to have a way of adjusting effective length. Most good arms use slots for the cartridge bolts.

The used Amadeus I bought did not have a stylus-to-pivot distance that was very appropriate to the spindle-to-pivot distance, and I wonder if that was a factor in the previous owner's decision to sell.

The tight grip which the golf-ball attachment has on the arm tube allows adjustment of azimuth as well as effective arm length. The suspension hoists also allow azimuth adjustment, but you need to line up headshell azimuth with suspension azimuth so that azimuth remains consistent across the record. I think some users may struggle a bit with these aspects of configuration.
Click to expand...

Using only the suspension hoists and a Fozgometer, I am getting pretty close measurements from both channels.

Never thought to try twisting the arm tube. Sounds like it may be worth a look at some point.
 
Which cartridge would you prefer on the Well Simplex ?
Nagaoka MP150/200 or Audio Technica VM 740/750 in combination with a Graham Slee Reflex MM phonostage?
 
Rushboy said:
Which cartridge would you prefer on the Well Simplex ?
Nagaoka MP150/200 or Audio Technica VM 740/750 in combination with a Graham Slee Reflex MM phonostage?
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Probably the AT 540ML and eventually ART 9 but i just wanted to get a feel for what people have tried and if they had to adjust the arm to get the best results ?
Nag would be a good option too.
 
I’ve heard an DV DRT XV1t on a Versalex and it was magical, but more than I will pay for a consumable. Later I had a Versalex at home with a XX2 and also tried my Proteus on it, neither had quite the same synergy, or I just hadn’t fine tuned the Proteus enough. I might still have bought it if it wasn’t such a precarious fit on a Fraim lite. In the end I went for something more exotic but that still hangs by a thread.
 
Not certain on your region but when I was after a cartridge for my Simplex I had seriously considered the TLC cartridge to keep it all in the family. If the website is to be believed it is a modified Nagaoka MP150. At end of day I was able to source a Nagaoka MP200 at a more competitive price. As you'll see from the numerous WTL reviews, the Dynavector cartridges are considered a highly complementary pairing as well.
TLC Phono Cartridge » Well Tempered Lab
 
Simon s said:
So i guess what i meant to ask was what cartridges work well with the Simplex arm (Versalex and Amadeus ?), without having to resort to adjusting the arm ?
Click to expand...

I see this went mostly unanswered.

The solution is to measure your spindle-to-pivot distance accurately (not easy) and use the vinylengine calculator to calculate ideal pivot-to-stylus distance (Baerwald or Stevenson, take your pick). Then measure pivot-to-cartridge-bolt difference accurately, subtract that from the calculated ideal stylus-to-pivot distance, and you will be left with the ideal stylus-to-cartridge-bolt length, typically in the range 7mm - 11mm. Finally, try to find stylus-to-bolt figures for the cartridges in which you are interested. Sadly it seems that this measure is not included in the specifications provided with most cartridges.

In fact the offset geometry affects that simple sum because the effective length of the stylus-to-cartridge-bolt and cartridge-bolt-to-pivot is determined by the small angle between the arm axis and the stylus-to-pivot line. If you draw it in plan view it's quite easy to do the trig and work out the true ideal stylus-to-cartridge-bolt length (hint: use the point half way between the centres of the two cartridge bolt holes as the corner of the two triangles).

Unfortunately stylus-to-cartridge-bolt lengths have never been standardised except P-mount and to a lesser extent those light bulb socket things, which is why many arm-makers resort to slots and protractors.

I wouldn't want this to put anyone off buying a Well Tempered deck. They sound wonderful regardless.
 
I love Bill's work, but unless he's recommended a S-CB length for his arm, the only justification can be user error is greater than that introduced by various S-CB lengths. Looking at the graphs it would seem to be a close call, so he's probably right, simplicity trumps risk for the majority of uses in his target market.
 
sonddek said:
The solution is to measure your spindle-to-pivot distance accurately (not easy) and use the vinylengine calculator to calculate ideal pivot-to-stylus distance (Baerwald or Stevenson, take your pick). Then measure pivot-to-cartridge-bolt difference accurately, subtract that from the calculated ideal stylus-to-pivot distance, and you will be left with the ideal stylus-to-cartridge-bolt length, typically in the range 7mm - 11mm. Finally, try to find stylus-to-bolt figures for the cartridges in which you are interested. Sadly it seems that this measure is not included in the specifications provided with most cartridges.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I guess i just wanted to get a feel for WT users to say what sort of combos worked with the arm.
 
sq225917 said:
I love Bill's work, but unless he's recommended a S-CB length for his arm, the only justification can be user error is greater than that introduced by various S-CB lengths. Looking at the graphs it would seem to be a close call, so he's probably right, simplicity trumps risk for the majority of uses in his target market.
Click to expand...

User error may have been a consideration, but the rationale Bill puts forward is that moving the stylus forwards or backwards by a few millimetres changes the tracking angle by a relatively small amount and that the only consequence of this particular misalignment is some rather pleasant-sounding 2nd harmonic distortion. Testing with multiple cartridges pointed to an optimal headshell angle of 19 degrees, so that is what you get. You can change it if you want to, but he advises against it.
 
Rushboy said:
Does the DPS from Well Tempered bring an audible sound improvement?
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My experience with a DPS was disastrous. Within a few minutes of plugging it in to my Versalex the motor died.
Further investigation showed that it does not output 12v as advertised, but closer to 20v.
Luckily I was advised not to use it with my P75 mk4 in advance, or I might have damaged that as well.
Clearly others have used them without problems. Based on the varying experiences, using one could be a bit of a gamble.
I would advise measuring the voltage output before plugging it in to anything, and compare the output to the published tolerances of the item you wish to use it with. 20v is quite a way outside what is recommended for the P75.

I believe the Well Tempered UK importer does not recommend them.

regards

Kevin
 
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