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How good can stand speakers be ?

bottleneck said:
I used to have a room that was approx 5 feet x 6 feet.

A small pair of missions filled the room totally..

following thread logic, I needed somethiing in there so large I'd be trapped against the wall and couldnt close the door.


so to original mr poster, course you can get a big led-zep sound from little speakers.. in a little room.
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If you set up your HiFi in the broom cupboard you will have a bottleneck ;)
 
All this talk about big sounds and dynamics in what is likely to be a living room in some flat or terraced house ...

Can you guys honestly tell the difference between say a peaks of 100 db to 103 db? If so, does that make the overall experience of say led zep or the who any better?
 
I've heard more small speakers to my liking than large speakers

They are all compromised in a way

The usually boom honk speakers are pretty much floorstanders however some stand mounts do have a rather slow ported bas performance.
 
Thank you to all for advice.
1. I also had Yamaha NS1000 but at least I gave them to my sister...
2. I like the Leben and the Harbeth and on most music they are stunning for the price.
3. My LZ Atlantic vinyl has red/green labels : what is this plum stuff ?
4. Headphones the easy answer but so embarrassing when you join in !

My thinking on the Diablos is that I have a good source. I also like my Leben and the Diablo is more efficient than the Harbeth, and has better bass so it should move things in right direction. Reviews of the Diablos put them near the top of the stand mount tree so I should like them...but it is a lot of money for "should".
 
Basil said:
Good question, can't wait for the answer.
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Depends what you mean by 'small'. However to generalise the main advantage of going active is that the crossover components in the speaker cabinets are removed. This increases the efficiency so less power is needed also the amp can dampen the drivers more easily thus reducing the tendency of the drivers to oscillate thus resulting in an overall 'tighter' presentation. The in-box crossover components dissipates power and heat up and their values change.

In 'active' the big passive crossover components are replaced by a low power active crossover whose tolerance can be controlled much more tightly.

Cheers,

DV
 
Darth Vader said:
Depends what you mean by 'small'. However to generalise the main advantage of going active is that the crossover components in the speaker cabinets are removed. This increases the efficiency so less power is needed also the amp can dampen the drivers more easily thus reducing the tendency of the drivers to oscillate thus resulting in an overall 'tighter' presentation. The in-box crossover components dissipates power and heat up and their values change.

In 'active' the big passive crossover components are replaced by a low power active crossover whose tolerance can be controlled much more tightly.

Cheers,

DV
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How important is this when playing at domestic levels?
 
darrylfunk said:
schoolboy error!
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How so? Perhaps I should be more specific and say that carts are capable of near DC to beyond 20kHz response. A near DC experience would be wrought by a one-way (and destructive) deflection of the stylus. I think any decent pressing of the 1812's cannons could do some damage too.
 
Darth Vader said:
Depends what you mean by 'small'. However to generalise the main advantage of going active is that the crossover components in the speaker cabinets are removed. This increases the efficiency so less power is needed also the amp can dampen the drivers more easily thus reducing the tendency of the drivers to oscillate thus resulting in an overall 'tighter' presentation. The in-box crossover components dissipates power and heat up and their values change.

In 'active' the big passive crossover components are replaced by a low power active crossover whose tolerance can be controlled much more tightly.
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All valid points - but IMO they seem to be less relevant to small speakers where the drivers are lightweight and it's ultimately the midbass driver that limits the maximum SPL capability of the speaker (so the greater efficiency just means you get driver artifacts at lower wattage levels).

Active amplification for full-range 3-way systems is another story...

P.S. I don't want to derail the thread, but how does one handle baffle step correction in an active system (unless the speaker manufacturer builds it into the filter?).
 
Darth Vader said:
However to generalise the main advantage of going active is that the crossover components in the speaker cabinets are removed. This increases the efficiency so less power is needed ...
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A bigger box with the same driver does not change the efficiency of the loudspeaker. It changes the LF response. To get a more efficient loudspeaker, you need to use a more efficient driver, which invariably needs a bigger box to deliver the same LF extension.

Darth Vader said:
The in-box crossover components dissipates power and heat up and their values change.
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Properly designed PXOs don't dissipate as much heat as driver voice coils. In fact, all the XO components of my designs run cool, even if when driven hard and loud.
 
honmanm said:
P.S. I don't want to derail the thread, but how does one handle baffle step correction in an active system (unless the speaker manufacturer builds it into the filter?).
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It generally needs to be incorporated into the target transfer function of the filter. That said, you could easily add a shelving filter to the active crossover to undo existing BSC or add BSC. You just need to work out the mid-point of the baffle step by dividing 115 into width (m). On my wide-baffle design, I deliberately chose the LP cutoff to coincide with the lower end of baffle step midpoint so that I can simply adjust the output level of the LP section of my active XO. My 600mm wide baffles yield a BSC F3 of 190Hz and my woofer crosses at 150Hz.

HTH.
 
James said:
How so? Perhaps I should be more specific and say that carts are capable of near DC to beyond 20kHz response. A near DC experience would be wrought by a one-way (and destructive) deflection of the stylus. I think any decent pressing of the 1812's cannons could do some damage too.
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If a cartridge could respond down to DC, then wouldn't merely sitting on a stopped record at ~2g cause an offset?
 
James said:
A bigger box with the same driver does not change the efficiency of the loudspeaker. It changes the LF response. To get a more efficient loudspeaker, you need to use a more efficient driver, which invariably needs a bigger box to deliver the same LF extension.
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That's Hoffman's Iron Law:

"You can have low end extension, high efficiency, or small enclosure size. Pick two."
 
Yank said:
If a cartridge could respond down to DC, then wouldn't merely sitting on a stopped record at ~2g cause an offset?
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No, because the stylus would self-centre. But try deflecting the stylus or breaking it off with the amp dialed up and see what happens to the woofer. It'll never be DC, but a 2Hz deflection is near DC. Likewise, a badly mismatched cart/arm combo can have a sub-sonic resonant frequency that coincides with warps that cause alarming woofer flapping.
 
James said:
But try deflecting the stylus or breaking it off with the amp dialed up and see what happens to the woofer.
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Do many run without a high pass filter of some sort?
i've always used one by default, currently 18 Hz, first was a "rumble filter" on my Nikko trm 30ic.
 
Wacko

You need to take a listen. I heard Diablos (and have Micro Utopia Bes). This was on the end of £2-3k Naim CD and amp. The Diablos were not much improvement on my speakers. I don't know anything about your kit so maybe it is in a stratoshpheric league but it would need to be to get the most from Diablos

No Focal dealers near you? I was told that there were a few Micro Utopia speakers on the s/h market. These were said to be the best standmounts in the world not that long ago (but now we have silly price speakers like Magico) and with a RRP (then) of around £4.5k and can now be had for around £1.5k they are a seriously good buy. Bass is deep and solid enough for me - very punchy
 
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