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How do you tag CLASSICAL CD rips?

After three different attempts I got fed up and just threw the CD into the drive attached to the Mac.

After a bit of fiddling to get the hang of ripping in iTunes the result seems to be correctly read by Roon.

The biggest hassle is locating the rip to avoid WAV clutter in my otherwise mp3 only iTunes library §it is there only to populate my phone with music).


Next question:

is there a better cd ripper (i.e. sound quality-wise) than the convenient one in iTunes for a MAC

I use XLD -> https://sourceforge.net/projects/xld/

But to be honest I've checked my iTunes rips and they were accurate.
 
I don’t ‘do’ downloads etc, so I’m only dealing with CDs. My attempt when ripping (using iTunes) is just to end up with the CD ripped and filed just how I would the physical CD. I find iTunes variable at tagging, it usually does pretty much ok, but does need neatening up now and again. The key to it all is the ‘sorting’ tab (I always browse in ‘album view’. Again this is just how I work, I’m used to/prefer physical media and I think very much in a visual way, e.g. I’ll often remember the cover art for a title rather than the name of the work, composer or performer, so this works for me. As an example I have the large EMI Du Pre box all together as one ‘various artists’ box with the right artwork rather that split into countless individual works, though obviously I can sort on the works should I wish, e.g. if I search for ‘Bach’ that box will be returned in the results.
 
I don’t ‘do’ downloads etc, so I’m only dealing with CDs. My attempt when ripping (using iTunes) is just to end up with the CD ripped and filed just how I would the physical CD. I find iTunes variable at tagging, it usually does pretty much ok, but does need neatening up now and again. The key to it all is the ‘sorting’ tab (I always browse in ‘album view’. Again this is just how I work, I’m used to/prefer physical media and I think very much in a visual way, e.g. I’ll often remember the cover art for a title rather than the name of the work, composer or performer, so this works for me. As an example I have the large EMI Du Pre box all together as one ‘various artists’ box with the right artwork rather that split into countless individual works, though obviously I can sort on the works should I wish, e.g. if I search for ‘Bach’ that box will be returned in the results.

iTunes is hopeless at tagging (ripped) classical music automatically (to be fair it uses external databases), and most downloads are inadequatelly tagged as well, which is why I tag everything manually. That way I have full control of tags and tag content.

In my experience iTunes is the best music file browser for classical music thanks to the "Column Browser" in "Songs" view. After I have selected tracks or albums I drag and drop them into the HQ Player window:

G4Twjeo.png
 
Since i installed Room, I just check that there is nothing really daft in the metadata before ripping with dbpoweramp and let Roon do the rest once i have checked it has identified the album as "classical".
The "merge albums" function is a painless way of bringing together the discs of a box split by inconsistent tagging when ripping.

If necessary I can always use Roon to find where the actual files are on my hard disc.

I am beginning to see why people like Roon so much - it is great with pop/rock/folk and even better with classical.
 
The thing that vexes me about digital music players and classical music is that each movement is a separate track, which clutters up the library, especially on the display of a small device. Do any players cooler the movements into the work they belong to?
 
The thing that vexes me about digital music players and classical music is that each movement is a separate track, which clutters up the library, especially on the display of a small device. Do any players cooler the movements into the work they belong to?

Roon does a reasonable job of letting you see your library by Composition (ie the whole work), or Album , (or track or artist etc). But other decent players like J River let you view your music pretty much however you want, you just set up views that suit the way you prefer to see your music.
 
We haven't yet addressed the issue of opus number, key and the number within works of a particular type by the composer (eg Beethoven String quartet number 15) should be noted: whether they should be recorded at all, recorded in the track title (often done but messy) or in a separate field; and how if at all one can standardise. And for cd reissues should "date" be date of orginal recording, date of issue or date of reissue?
 
We haven't yet addressed the issue of opus number, key and the number within works of a particular type by the composer (eg Beethoven String quartet number 15) should be noted: whether they should be recorded at all, recorded in the track title (often done but messy) or in a separate field; and how if at all one can standardise. And for cd reissues should "date" be date of orginal recording, date of issue or date of reissue?

All that is doable with J River. People who like classical music will rarely agree on how these things should be done, hence the lack of a shared standard, but if you use a decent player you can store the information you want, and use it to search and view your collection.
 
The main problem is getting it all tagged properly. If you allow any automation or input from an internet source then you are left open to wild tiresome inconsistencies.
 
FWIW when ripping classical works I choose to either go 'one track per movement' or to group tracks as seems most convenient. But I don't tag files. Just given them recognisable names and use a directory (folder) structure that makes sense to me.
 
All that is doable with J River. People who like classical music will rarely agree on how these things should be done, hence the lack of a shared standard, but if you use a decent player you can store the information you want, and use it to search and view your collection.
Spot on. JRiver has the advantage of flexibility at the cost of a learning curve. My system with a fairly large library from over 3000 mostly classical CDs is to drill down in manageable stages. I might have a list of composers on the first screen, a list of a composers works on the next screen and on selecting a work, a list of the versions of each work on the next screen from which I can play the work or go into the next screen which lists the individual movements. How many stages or clicks is entirely down to the user.

For historical reasons and for classical recordings, using Sonos, instead of each entire CD becoming one album I made each work on a CD an album. This actually works very well, particularly as many CDs have mixtures of composers and or genres. There is one big snag, and that the files produced aren’t conducive to being assessed and catalogued by Roon. Roon assumes an album is a of complete CD. Of course, I could use JRiver to “reassemble” my files into Groups which Roon would see as rips of complete CDs but I don’t feel that Roon is offering me anything more than I, personally, am getting from JRiver. Quite the contrary in fact when it comes to all the different ways of browsing that can be set up in JRiver. For pop rock and jazz I keep to the conventional method of one CD being ripped a a complete album.

The most important thing I have learned is to be wary of tying oneself into a particular hardware manufacturer and their bespoke software. That £2k streamer may be usable now but a change of software could, as was the case with Sonos, render it barely usable. Many of this bespoke software solutions are primarily designed for pop recordings which are catalogued in a fundamentally different way.
 
I've been using songkong for a while now - it matches up metadata from a variety of sources (not just discogs) and does a very good job of it too. You have LOTS of control over how you want Classical files to be tagged

http://www.jthink.net/songkong/

http://www.jthink.net/songkong/classical.jsp
I’ve never come across this one before, thanks for the links, it looks very interesting. I might give it whirl; not that I need to but it is always interesting to see alternative ways of doing things and whether they might be a improvement.
 
Spot on. JRiver has the advantage of flexibility at the cost of a learning curve. My system with a fairly large library from over 3000 mostly classical CDs is to drill down in manageable stages. I might have a list of composers on the first screen, a list of a composers works on the next screen and on selecting a work, a list of the versions of each work on the next screen from which I can play the work or go into the next screen which lists the individual movements. How many stages or clicks is entirely down to the user.

For historical reasons and for classical recordings, using Sonos, instead of each entire CD becoming one album I made each work on a CD an album. This actually works very well, particularly as many CDs have mixtures of composers and or genres. There is one big snag, and that the files produced aren’t conducive to being assessed and catalogued by Roon. Roon assumes an album is a of complete CD. Of course, I could use JRiver to “reassemble” my files into Groups which Roon would see as rips of complete CDs but I don’t feel that Roon is offering me anything more than I, personally, am getting from JRiver. Quite the contrary in fact when it comes to all the different ways of browsing that can be set up in JRiver. For pop rock and jazz I keep to the conventional method of one CD being ripped a a complete album.

The most important thing I have learned is to be wary of tying oneself into a particular hardware manufacturer and their bespoke software. That £2k streamer may be usable now but a change of software could, as was the case with Sonos, render it barely usable. Many of this bespoke software solutions are primarily designed for pop recordings which are catalogued in a fundamentally different way.

I agree that J River is much better than Roon at helping you get your music organised the way you want. Alas it doesn’t integrate with Qobuz whereas Roon does, so I now use Roon. I miss many of J Rivers features, but the advantages of Qobuz integration outweigh the loss of control. And I’ve still got J River if I need it. To be fair, you can tell Roon to use your own tags instead of its preferred ones, which can help, and it automatically understands a composition (ie work) which J River does not.
 
The main problem is getting it all tagged properly. If you allow any automation or input from an internet source then you are left open to wild tiresome inconsistencies.

I agree. That is why I tag all classical music manually.
iTunes auto-tagging is fine fazz and rock.
 
We haven't yet addressed the issue of opus number, key and the number within works of a particular type by the composer (eg Beethoven String quartet number 15) should be noted: whether they should be recorded at all, recorded in the track title (often done but messy) or in a separate field; and how if at all one can standardise. And for cd reissues should "date" be date of orginal recording, date of issue or date of reissue?

I posted my tagging methodology a few messages back:

https://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum...-classical-cd-rips.229289/page-2#post-3704745

example: Beethoven: Symphony No.3 In E-flat Major, Op55 - I. Allegro Con Brio

I have chosen to remove the space between "No." and "XX" and both dot and space from the opus to make the song name shorter.
To be honest I'm not geek enough to have any use for the key of the opus and could easily live without them... It would save me a lot of time when tagging newly acquired music (ripped or downloaded).
I have been debating whether to start using the iTunes movement tag field.
 
Whatever tagging scheme and player you choose it is all so much better than shelves of CDs or even worse vinyl and having to twist your head sideways to read almost illegible print on the spines - did those CDs on the bottom shelf ever get played?
 
Whatever tagging scheme and player you choose it is all so much better than shelves of CDs or even worse vinyl and having to twist your head sideways to read almost illegible print on the spines - did those CDs on the bottom shelf ever get played?

Actually I was forced by a move abroad to rip all my CDs but I much preferred browsing through the boxes than using the computer to select music...

I kept my CDs in flip racks like these:

BEKO-CD-St%C3%A4nder-CD-Flips-zum-Bl%C3%A4ttern-ohne.jpg
 
Whatever tagging scheme and player you choose it is all so much better than shelves of CDs or even worse vinyl and having to twist your head sideways to read almost illegible print on the spines - did those CDs on the bottom shelf ever get played?
You have a point about that bottom shelf.
As i rip my classical CDs I keep on discovering stuff I had forgotten I owned...
 
Actually I was forced by a move abroad to rip all my CDs but I much preferred browsing through the boxes than using the computer to select music...

I kept my CDs in flip racks like these:

BEKO-CD-St%C3%A4nder-CD-Flips-zum-Bl%C3%A4ttern-ohne.jpg
I would never have enough space for those things, not with 22 metres of CDs
 


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