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How do you know when to stop?

My system is carefully crafted, expensive (though some elements were bought used) and produces absolutely stunning music. I couldn’t be happier with it.

Thinking about a pair of REL 212SX subs :rolleyes:
 
When your system glues you to your seat for 22 straight hours, and reading a book is a no no as you keep getting drawn back into the music, then you have to force yourself to go to bed at 3am.

That was me yesterday after getting my Black Ice DSD back from its final round of mods (told nothing further can be done to it), mode were cheap (£150) and minor:- wifi module disconnected, cap, on digi board swapped + cap & resistor on output, and 3 RDC5 cone feet added, but the effect on the SQ of the DAC was huge.
 
You're done when your favorite pieces of music are nothing but enjoyable. You might hear some faults but you're enjoying them so much that you don't care.

Whenever I think about changing something (phono stage is a theoretical weak point) I'm worried that all I'll do is muck it all up.
 
My starting point is that I’m not cash rich and so have to make the best decisions I can. I have previously limited myself to an upper limit of £3k per box and I was guided by the simple idea that I only changed if I needed to rather than because I wanted to. I’ve zero interest in Hi-Fi as a hobby or end in itself. I just want more of the music. The ultimate aspiration was the rather simplistic “system of separates including pre/power plus floor-standing speakers”. For me it progressed as follows:

Dansette purchased by parents.
Amstrad tower system purchased by parents.
Sony portable CDP to see what the fuss was about, purchased by me.
Sony CDP rapidly followed by Pioneer A400 and Epos ES11s. There was also a Dual turntable gifted to me by a work colleague. Can’t say it was used for more than singles as I was beginning to focus on CD.
The CDP was an error. I’m not a bass fiend but the “precise” bass was simply never enough bass.
Loved the Pioneer and Epos for the best part of two decades once I’d added a Micromega Stage 3 CDP. Wonderful, simple, expressive system. I could have stopped there, but…
Micromega had a known fault at the point when they had no UK distribution or repair options so I needed a new CDP.
Added a Naim CDX2 and XPS2. Again a simple and expressive system albeit very different to the French front end.
Moved home. Provided the opportunity for an all Naim system. That exposed the limitations of the Epos so I started my only big upgrade search. Took three years but ended up with Zu Soul Superfly. Absolutely no regrets there but they expose what’s going on upstream brutally and I began to recognise that Naim cables and dressing of same are a PITA.
Finally moved to streaming having run out of space for CDs. Sold the Naim CDP. Thought it was faulty or wrong. In the end had to concede that I was older; my ears and hearing had changed and I needed something different and went all in on an Innuos Zenith Mk. 3 plus a Chord Hugo TT2. Happened on them in strange circumstances but again zero regrets. Now looking to rid myself of the Naim amplification and move back to the simplicity of an integrated. The Enleum AMP-23R seems to fit the bill but we’ll see.

So, for me, I stop when I have source, amplification and speakers and it all works. Happy to sit there and analyse the sound but it’s amazing how many different types of presentation you can come to appreciate if you give stuff time rather than thinking from the off about what it does or doesn’t do.

Happy to haunt forums etc. but I’ve spent three years listening to music and that’s much more fun than hi-fi.
 
I'll start out by saying that I have a hifi I very much love listening to but like many I get the 'itch'...

However, I do find myself going a little in circles and wondering whether upgrades will really be worth it or whether the law of diminishing returns kicks in harder now than ever before?

I have a PC running MusicBee which feeds FLACs into a Topping D90SE (I got lured into a bargain on a Black Friday sale) which in turn runs into an XTZ Class A100 D3 amp; speakers are Kef Reference 3.2s. Speaker cable is Chord Odessey 2, the RCA cables between the DAC and amp are Audioquest Golden Gate which were on a discount on Amazon at some point. The kit is, in my opinion, well set up and the sound is very enjoyable and well-balanced. The front-ported Kefs work better in my room than the Celestion A3s they replaced but which I couldn't quite bring myself to sell with them having been my 'grail' speaker for the better part of 15 years!

So what's the problem? Well I tend to buy used stuff on the whole which comes with a few pitfalls. Primarily you're 'buying blind' with no backsies if you don't like it, and that's not much of an issue with lower-value kit (a good example of this is the Bluesound Node 2 which I bought used, lived with for a couple of weeks but ultimately really didn't like. I was able to sell it on again for what I'd paid for it used). This, clearly, is a fairly good way of trialling stuff and not being out of pocket if you don't like it.

The issue I'm coming to now is how that scales; as good as the XTZ is, I've been wondering about something Class D or perhaps something from a higher price-point. I was on the cusp of buying a MF M6Si from a PFMer for a decent price but logistics and life got in the way and I put that on pause. It's not an outrageous amount (around £1500) but it's approaching my 'I can shift this on quickly and easily if I don't like it?' limit. An extreme example; another PFMer has some gorgeous-looking Devialet amps for sale which are into 5 figures but haven't sold. I'd LOVE to hear what they can do but whilst I could easily buy them tomorrow, I'd have enormous concerns about just how good could they really be and if for some reason they fail to meet expectations, would I encounter similar issues selling them on myself, meaning a non-trivial amount of money tied up until they go... Is the only option for hearing really high-end kit to buy new where you can get a home demo to really hear how something sounds?

The thing is that I'm also realistic about why (very) expensive kit might not work for me. I'm sure the Kefs could benefit from a higher-quality amp - the XTZ was only around €800 new and whilst it punches above its weight, I'm sure it probably wouldn't keep up with something in the £2-5k range. The D90SE is a fantastic DAC with excellent specs - I suspect any changes to a higher-end DAC would probably be more about differences in the analogue output and even then it might be hard to say it's 'better'. Yet the limiting factor over everything is more likely to be both my listening space (which is OK but not perfect) and honestly....me - I'm OK but not perfect either!

I'd love to try higher-end amps with the Kefs and I've also seen the insane deals on the Markaudio Sota speakers in the classifieds at the moment (part of me would really like to try a decent pair of stand-mounts just to try 'something new'). But how do you know when to stop when it comes to hifi? How do you know when you've reached the limit of your room rather than the limit of your kit? Where do you draw the line financially on buying something you've never heard, might not like and which could be difficult to sell on..?

So then I sit down, listen to some more stuff and think....y'know, this sounds great; do I really need to change anything...? :D

Rinse, repeat...!

Fine then. carry on. Life is to make you happy, and crazy, and sad, and poor and and and
Stop analizing, play some music and carry on.
Oh and never listen to advice here.
 
Stop analizing

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The answer is you probably don't. If you have any interest in hifi, you are always wanting to listen to something different, be that a next upgrade or sideways move. There's several users on here and other forums who seem to be very active buying and selling and I can only imagination it's because of that reason.
 
I didn’t stop but I slowed down. When you slow down it gives you more time to consider the sound and music you are listening to and more time to avoid making snap judgements.
 
When you realise chasing audio nirvana is like looking for that pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, and contentment is making the most of and liking what you have rather than buying all that your heart desires.

Oh, and when the bank manager has a stern word with you about your overdraft and credit card limit.
 
When your up in the loft and spot the kids old wooden train track bridge and think hmmmm nice cable lifters.
You’ve already gone past the point then,and are probably only listening to the first edition pressing of virgins ringing hand bells because of all the veils being lifted
 
I have quite a simple test:

Play music over the long term and see if you have any niggles or barriers to enjoyment.

When I was on the upgrade cycle I was listening to the gear rather than the music, but haven’t (more dare) made any significant system upgrades over the past 5yrs or so.

I learned that it’s never possible to get it “perfect”, and that a bit of sympathetic “warmth” goes a long way in keeping music enjoyable and avoiding clinical sound. Also, once you find yourself listening to tunes and not analysing the HiFi, LEAVE IT ALONE!

There are some though, like Jerry (JANDL100), where box swapping is very much part of the fun, getting different perspectives on the music.
 
When your system glues you to your seat for 22 straight hours, and reading a book is a no no as you keep getting drawn back into the music, then you have to force yourself to go to bed at 3am.

That was me yesterday after getting my Black Ice DSD back from its final round of mods (told nothing further can be done to it), mode were cheap (£150) and minor:- wifi module disconnected, cap, on digi board swapped + cap & resistor on output, and 3 RDC5 cone feet added, but the effect on the SQ of the DAC was huge.
You need to find other interests.
 
I’ve done regular seven or eight hour listening sessions in the past three years. Streaming system. No switch etc. Not perfect but relaxed and lovely.
 
The answer is you probably don't. If you have any interest in hifi, you are always wanting to listen to something different, be that a next upgrade or sideways move. There's several users on here and other forums who seem to be very active buying and selling and I can only imagination it's because of that reason.
I used to refer to them as hi-fi changers. Most eventually get off the Karousel.
 
When you realise chasing audio nirvana is like looking for that pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, and contentment is making the most of and liking what you have rather than buying all that your heart desires.

Oh, and when the bank manager has a stern word with you about your overdraft and credit card limit.
Yes, exactly what's happened to me. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with my system now. I keep on repeating this mantra to myself: You are not changing anything. You are not changing anything. You are not changing anything...
 


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