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How do the 'non-subjectivists' choose their hi-fi systems?

Discussion in 'audio' started by Pete L, Apr 25, 2020.

  1. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    Rather than limiting ourselves to what I've personally encountered, take a look at the list at ASR:
    Note the complete lack of correlation between price and measured performance.
  2. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    I don't spend time in the audio forum so much these days as I find it irritating to see the same arguments trotted out, time after time. See Tony's post #1040. I got lured into this thread. I guess on here, I sometimes find myself acting out troll hunter fantasies. I think I found one.
    flutteringwow likes this.
  3. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    Maybe you should spend more time on things you enjoy and less questioning the motivations of others. I do agree some of the arguments can get rather tiresome, FWIW.
  4. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    Maybe I should, mansr, maybe I should.

    Not convinced your motivations are as pure as you profess, but hey, I guess you've got to live up to your billing. I guess that's where the fun is, for me.

    At some point soon my hearing perception will, I trust, return to normal and I'll enjoy my music again. Then I'll be back to doing what I enjoy. In the meantime, poking trolls with a stick is a poor substitute but in these days of lockdown, you've got to make your own entertainment, haven't you?
    flutteringwow likes this.
  5. clivem2

    clivem2 pfm Member

    Rather like most products you can buy....performance is just one aspect. Style. Brand value. Cost to produce. Cost to design. Margins to distribution and sales networks. Marketing costs.....and so the list goes on. There are lots of reasons why goods are priced as they are. Items poorly priced won't sell. The market decides.
  6. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    If it weren't for the current situation, I'd suggest we have a chat over a pint. I think we probably have more in common than this thread would suggest.
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr likes this.
  7. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    You may be right. :)
  8. Del monaco

    Del monaco Del Monaco

    Can see that....
  9. Chops54

    Chops54 pfm Member

    I usually buy something because A, I like the way it's put together and B, because I like how it sounds. I sometimes look at the specs but more often that not I can't be bothered. Some years ago I took a massive gamble and bought some 211 power amps blind because I trusted the dealers description. He gave me a generous discount on the understanding that once we'd done the deal that was it. Thankfully they were everything I could have wished for and six years later I'm still enjoying them immensely.
  10. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    If you had information that DBTs do not suffer from the basic methodological flaws I pointed out, surely you wouldn't be so stingy with it?

    A house of cards built on unproven assumptions and flawed methods.
  11. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    Measurement religion is strong with you. And no, it is not called science.
  12. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    As in ‘how long is a piece of string?’ perhaps? ;)
  13. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    I am currently running four DACs, three with excellent ASR specs and one with good. Strangely enough I hear differences among them. Even though I don't spend long hours training myself on ABX testing as Amir commendibly does.

    The differences I hear are at the level of personal preference, like the filter settings on modern DACs. Worth noticing and enjoying, but not agonizing over.
  14. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    Not so much the most important task, but certainly the primary one...

    Once you've determined that two products are different, there's still the issue of whether one is right and one is wrong, or if they're both wrong in different ways.

    What is the purpose of discovering differences in products? It's not just academic, it's to aid in either a purchasing choice or a design decision.
  15. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    Differences can also be cumulative. A series of barely-perceptible differences can add up when components are combined.
  16. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    You just desceibed the interactive or confounding effects, that every textbook on experimental method tells you are important and can't be assumed away.

    Yet, our objective friends routinely ignore it. They either pretend its not important or are (gasp) undereducated in this area.
  17. flutteringwow

    flutteringwow Platinum Ears

    I think his website he lists as 'Troll Audio' needed some footfall, so he decided to troll someone else's forum to get some attention, but boy does he commit, it's like the daily episide of The Troll Show reading this thread!
    herb and Del monaco like this.
  18. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    Of course distortion is cumulative. That's why I want each item to be transparent with some margin. If they all have enough headroom that 10 of them could be connected in series and still be transparent, there's nothing to worry about.
  19. suzywong

    suzywong Wot, no electrons?

    Perhaps it would be instructive and useful to list these ten “transparent items”, so we can all enjoy them. :)
    flutteringwow likes this.
  20. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    I meant ten of the same item. If stringing 10 preamps one after another doesn't audibly affect the sound, then the single one we actually need won't either, _and_ there will be enough margin for the amp to do some damage as well without the compound effect being noticed.

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