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How do the 'non-subjectivists' choose their hi-fi systems?

Discussion in 'audio' started by Pete L, Apr 25, 2020.

  1. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    It is hardly the cutting-edge of anything, but its a decent enough album in its own way and has over the decades acted as a spring-board into the far deeper and wider world of classic US jazz for countless audiophiles. That alone proves its worth.

    PS I do actually play it now and again despite having a very good and wide jazz collection, I guess there is a degree of nostalgia for that ‘80s period when I was young and discovering so much myself. It was often the only jazz LP you could find at a hi-fi dealer so had value in that respect.
     
  2. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

    I would point my finger at the ambience noises.
    Some audiophiles like that kind of stuff, Jarrett's moaning, a (female) singer's breath on the mic, the mechanical noises of an instrument or the sound of fingers sliding up or down steel guitar strings...
    All music-uncorrelated "noise", which nonetheless may provide some realism. Accessory, perhaps musically-superfluous sounds which may help distract the listener from lack of realism or lower fidelity.
     
    Woodface likes this.
  3. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    On the Pawnshop those background noises actually create a pretty good live feeling. Some people like that, some don't. Nothing wrong either way.
     
  4. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    I guess I'm coming at it from the other direction. If I can't detect a difference, there's no point trying to decide on a preference. Measurements can tell me if I'm likely to hear a difference at all.
     
  5. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    Measurements can also create an expectation bias, though, can’t they?
     
    tuga likes this.
  6. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    Of course they can, but so what? If the measured difference is well below the threshold of audibility, it doesn't matter, it'll be inaudible whether or not I expect it to be.
     
  7. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    Sometimes I find differences are subliminal, not necessarily directly audible, so thresholds may be misleading. YMMV obvs, but I find if my listening patterns change, or my choice of music varies, that can be instructive even if I haven’t consciously identified a characteristic. Can’t do that in anything other than extended listening.

    And in those cases where you expect to hear an audible difference? Will you hear what you expect?
     
    flutteringwow likes this.
  8. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    If measurements say I'm likely to hear differences between two DACs or amps, I'm not interested. Since electronics can be made completely transparent, that's what I want.
     
    Emlin likes this.
  9. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    There's a lot of shoddy equipment out there. Measuring is the best way of finding the good stuff.
     
  10. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    The idea of buying a record as a showcase for a hi-fi is ridiculous. I just love music, if it happens to have good SQ then that is a bonus. Records that sound terrible do detract from the enjoyment, of course, but if I like the music I hear past it.
     
  11. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    Then why read the measurements at all. You argue that equipment has been perfectly adequate measuring for years now, so surely you have something that is suitable, already?
     
  12. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    Sorry, I deleted my post just as you replied to it. I then re-posted with a multi-quote of yours, just above this.

    My point is, why do you need to find the good stuff? Why are you even in the market? Surely you have something adequate already. Obviously, you'd check out replacements when something breaks, but why would you look at measurements otherwise?

    I'm trying to understand your motivation, here.
     
    herb likes this.
  13. monya

    monya pfm Member

    Could I have a summary of the last 1032 posts please?
     
  14. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    Who said I'm "in the market"? I'm happy with what I have now, and unless something breaks or I desire a new feature, I'm unlikely to replace anything. I glance at some of the measurements on ASR mainly for two reasons, to keep up with where the state of the art is at and to laugh at stupidly priced gear with poor performance. On an average day, I probably spend less than 5 minutes looking at measurement reports.
     
  15. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    Two sides arguing over which one draws the best caricature of the other.
     
  16. herb

    herb music live

    mansr lists his occupation as troll...
     
  17. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    Thanks, I think I understand, though if every competent piece of kit is already more than good enough, why the interest in where the state of the art is? Not sure why you're here, though? What interest does a hifi forum hold for you? Sure, the music and off topic forums perhaps, but why this one? What do you feel you have to contribute, and what will you hope to gain from this particular forum?
     
  18. adamk

    adamk pfm Member

    I didnt realise the hobby was a potential minefield, I've never given specs more than a cursory glance.
    Could you expand on what 'shoddy' items you have come across ?
     
  19. mansr

    mansr Objectionist

    My interests include music and electronics, and audio combines these. I'm here because I might learn something, especially around speakers and acoustics, and to help others where my expertise permits. Isn't that what forums are all about, people with shared interests exchanging ideas? Why are you here?
     
    Emlin likes this.
  20. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    10 PRINT “I have confidence in my ears and grasp of music so I can hear differences for myself”
    20 PRINT “I can only trust manufacturer specs and other people’s measurements as I have no idea what music sounds like”
    30 GOTO 10
     
    suzywong and Sue Pertwee-Tyr like this.

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