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How do the 'non-subjectivists' choose their hi-fi systems?

There is an implicit assumption that manufacturers' stated specifications are accurate. Often, they are not. Some exaggerate; others understate. I have no way of measuring, so I have learnt to use and trust my ears.

In order of preference, I'd choose perceived sound quality, reputation, longevity/serviceability over specifications.
 
This reminds me of a guy on a Swedish forum. In the 1970's he worked for a small manufacturer of pro amps calles Xelex. In the late 1970's they went into the home HiFi business and designed a pre amp. The guy who designed it never listened to it! 'It measures perfectly well, so why bother?¨. Some times later our friend read that there where people who heard differences when you switched polarity on the mains cable. To stir up a conversation he mentioned this to the engineers at Xelex. Their answer was: 'Yes, of course.' (!!!)
 
James said:
There is an implicit assumption that manufacturers' stated specifications are accurate. Often, they are not. Some exaggerate; others understate. I have no way of measuring, so I have learnt to use and trust my ears.
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If I'm considering a purchase, I'll try to find independent measurements of the device done by someone I have reasonable trust in (i.e. not Stereophile). Failing that, I'll look for measurements of another device from the same manufacturer. This can tell me whether published specs by that manufacturer are accurate. It's also possible to make a reasonable estimate of parameters not in the official specs based on the position of the devices in the manufacturer's product line.
 
mansr said:
If I'm considering a purchase, I'll try to find independent measurements of the device done by someone I have reasonable trust in (i.e. not Stereophile). Failing that, I'll look for measurements of another device from the same manufacturer. This can tell me whether published specs by that manufacturer are accurate. It's also possible to make a reasonable estimate of parameters not in the official specs based on the position of the devices in the manufacturer's product line.
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Sounds sensible but surely listening to the product first is more important. You can think it’s great, then look at the measurements afterwards and realise they are terrible which will put you into all sorts of neurotic spasms.
 
Woodface said:
Some interesting thoughts here.

When it comes to hi-fi I am a pragmatist. I only buy kit from established brands that can be serviced as required or sold on when it comes to upgrading. I tend to buy only on the basis of a home demo & generally keep things a long time.
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Very much my approach too.. and a home demo is essential.
 
Personally find what measurements/specs can't tell us more interesting than what they can - useful starting point as they are. Emotional connection, illusion of reality, etc.

Also amused by the irony when pure objectivists refuse to entertain anything happening outside of a belief or measurement system. Where's the scientific curiosity?
 
MVV said:
I'm pretty pragmatic and I reckon most old timers here are the same. Cables, something that is well made and works, so long as it isn't expensive or deliberately a tone control I'd be ok; would never 'audition'. Amps primarily on the numbers and build wouldn't bother listening. Turntable I'd listen but then I'd buy the new Technics blind in a heartbeat. Speakers I need to listen to in my room and it will be a very subjective decision.

Ps also there are a few here who I would just trust and go with their suggestion. Other than speakers in my room.
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I'm fortunate in that not only have I made my own cables for more years than I like to remember, and heard how different they can sound, I more recently have been able to try new (and expensive) cables direct form manufacturers, sometimes pre-production designs. I now have some rather expensive cables, of all types, which I chose solely on subjective grounds. Mostly they have cost me no cash at all.
As for auditioning at home, often that is impossible, especially out here in Plymouth, and anyway I rarely buy new, plus I make a lot of my own equipment. The Quad 2805s couldn't be auditioned at home, nor the cartridges I have.
Amps can be very different, especially if, like me, you prefer the sound of SE DHT valve designs. The numbers on those are very little help, especially as some have found that, for example, the 2nd harmonic distortion of an SET can match that of a full range speaker and nullify it if connected out of phase with it. Multi-way speakers are another matter, but it just goes to show that the usual specs can be very misleading.
I certainly look at specs (an 8 watt 300B won't work, but a 38 watt GM70 should), but distortion measurements don't worry me as much. It's what I hear that matters to me.
Which these days, is not very much above 12kHz! :(
 
Del monaco said:
Sounds sensible but surely listening to the product first is more important. You can think it’s great, then look at the measurements afterwards and realise they are terrible which will put you into all sorts of neurotic spasms.
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I look at it the other way round. Looking at measurements (if you can assess their reliability and interpret them properly) can tell you when a manufacturer has insufficient grasp of the technology according to today's state of the art [1]; and whether there is likely to be any incompatibility with other parts of a system.

This approach does not assume good measurements equates to good sound. It is to do with eliminating kit from a shortlist when it is unsuitable, before going and trying it out. So you avoid those neurotic spasms. This way may not suit those who enjoy a chase for the best kit according to their criteria but it does streamline the search if that's what suits you.

[1] In an interview about his loudspeaker measurements John Atkinson used a phrase similar to "someone who has turned his hobby into a business".
 
John Phillips said:
I look at it the other way round. Looking at measurements (if you can assess their reliability and interpret them properly) can tell you when a manufacturer has insufficient grasp of the technology according to today's state of the art [1]; and whether there is likely to be any incompatibility with other parts of a system.

This approach does not assume good measurements equates to good sound. It is to do with eliminating kit from a shortlist when it is unsuitable, before going and trying it out. So you avoid those neurotic spasms. This way may not suit those who enjoy a chase for the best kit according to their criteria but it does streamline the search if that's what suits you.

[1] In an interview about his loudspeaker measurements John Atkinson used a phrase similar to "someone who has turned his hobby into a business".
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Fair enough.
 
I put the specs of all the kit I am considering in to a huge spreadsheet which I forensically analyse and then buy what seems the biggest bargain. I then spend the "profit" on cables.

I have a Sansui tower with matching speakers and some £30,000 speaker cable and it sounds great.
 
Latest pair of speakers: reputation (not in hifi but professional circles, mind you). Was not disappointed.

Latest cd player: any large Japanese brand would have done. Purchased a Denon basic model. Sounded exactly like my previous cdp.

First and in all probability last dac: reputation and curiosity. I thought I might hear a small difference compared to my Denon cdp. Alas, I did not, which did not surprise me that much.

Headphones: burnt a compilation of my favorite music on tree cd-r discs. Then listened the phones for three hours in the demo room.

In the end I could have tossed a coin in every case. Provided the loudspeakers are not truly horrible or faulty, I will get used to the sound in a couple of hours. Placebo takes care of the rest.
 
Years ago I realised I could just plug the scope into the speakers and leave it to do the beastly job of receiving the signal while I can proceed to ignore hifi, and hifi arguments.

That way, everything is satisfactory.

measure.jpg
 
martin clark said:
Years ago I realised I could just plug the scope into the speakers and leave it to do the beastly job of receiving the signal while I can proceed to ignore hifi, and hifi arguments.

That way, everything is satisfactory.

measure.jpg
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Aha a 465 by the look of it! I have one on my bench but use a 2015 as my listening room scope. It has a slightly fuzzy focus and I find this really takes the edge off any harsh recordings I'm watching. It avoids any conflict with the neighbours as well!
 
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