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Housing market

Reports from the London market are that rents continue to rise - some mental numbers being quoted: not enough stock, private landlords left the market during the pandemic. Sales are softer but holding up - again no stock.

I don’t doubt it. Supply in places where people want to live is tight. The govt have successfully driven many small landlords away. Had a look in my locations. Well behind the curve now but very happy to have good tenants, which is worth a lot to me so no point rocking the boat.
 
The food industry pumps out poor-quality food because there's a decent profit in it (and there's demand). Obviously, the food industry is not solely responsible for the obesity problem but it could do more to educate people on nutrition and good food standards. Warning labels on ultra-processed foods might also help.
As regards information, what do you want? Every bloody night on the TV there is a slew of food programmes. Last week there was Jamie knocking up a chicken pie for £1 a head and a load of other stuff, Bakeoff, Saturday kitchen, In The Factory, you can spend more time watching food being made than most people actually spend doing it. In fact we do. How much more education do you want? The point is that the public watch all this and then go for something easy because they are knackered after work and it's easier to let someone else do the work. The days where women didn't go to work and spent time making their own pastry, walking from the butcher's to the greengrocer's to get fresh veg and coming home to peel potatoes are gone. We're all wealthy enough to live on takeaways and ready meals if we want to.

Of course the food industry bears responsibility for obesity. It's not just that it creates high-calorie, low nutrition junk that's cheaper and more convenient than preparing food from fresh ingredients, it's spent decades and fortunes on political lobbying and misinformation to protect its interests just as the oil and tobacco industries have done.
Here we go again. The food industry manufactures what people want to buy. It's that simple. I've got a cupboard full of inexpensive high quality food that cost me next to nothing - chicken at £2 a kilo, carrots at 60p a kilo, frozen peas at £1 a kilo, onions at 60p a kilo, cabbage at 50p each, fresh milk at £1.60 for 4 pints (I was paying this 25 years ago) and so on. I could buy chocolate and cakes instead, but I don't.

It's not just that it creates high-calorie, low nutrition junk that's cheaper and more convenient than preparing food from fresh ingredients
I wish we were that clever. It's not cheaper, see the examples above. It may be more convenient, well, yes, obviously it's more convenient to buy a pizza than it is to mix dough and grate cheese, but that's the point of food manufacture. Most people don't construct their own houses either, because it's easier to buy one that's already been built.
high calorie low nutrition junk
Buy the chicken, carrots and cabbage I pointed at upthread instead of a packet of biscuits then. It's dirt cheap. I had a can of lentil soup for lunch. Cost? About 50p. Low nutrition? Not really, it's a pile of veg and water, some shreds of ham and lentils in a tin. Labour to prepare? 2 minutes in a microwave. As gratifying as a McDo burger meal, cost £4-5? Probably not, but there are queues outside McDo and 2 supermarkets within 200 yards of the place with piles of tins of soup and fresh bread.
As for political lobbying, let's have a look at how well that went with the recent sugar tax:
Govt: "Soft drinks contain too much sugar and are responsible for obesity, we're going to tax them to reduce consumption"
Industry "You can't do that, it's our livelihood, sugar's a natural food, nobody forces you to drink it. If you do this we'll have to reformulate everything and it will cost thousands"
Govt "Bollocks. Suck it up, we're doing it and you can STFU"
Industry "Harumph harumph. Bloody got to reformulate now."
Cue pretty well every mass market soft drink now coming in under 5% sugar to duck the tax, surprise surprise. Sugar consumption reduced nationally, artificial sweeteners industry cock-a-hoop, soft drinks consumption undiminished.
it's spent decades and fortunes on political lobbying and misinformation to protect its interests just as the oil and tobacco industries have done
Bollocks. Likening food manufacturing to tobacco is f**ing cheap. Lobbying, see sugar tax above. The food industry doesn't lobby any more than any other organisiation with a vested interest. Everybody lobbies, that's why they set up working groups with industry representatives, because civil servants can't be expected to be up to date with every industry. As for misinformation, examples please.
 
They used salt petre, it's been used to cure meat for centuries. Without it the meat is grey, for which you can thank the laws of chemistry.
ah thats interesting .i was watching magrait ( cant spell it !) Recently and saltpetre was under the nails of the deceased giving clues to place of death
 
Interesting discussion with an admirer of my dog earlier (not me, clearly). A woman (not from the area) asked if I lived locally. She’d just been to view a house. Said the market is nuts. Offered asking price (no chain) on a place yesterday, declined as better offers in place, apparently. So it seems things are very area specific, unless the agent is playing games of course, which is not beyond the realms of possibility. A minefield.
 
Who've announced that they're laying off a lot of staff because their heyday in the pandemic is well and truly over; they're losing money.

Apart from the vary occasional Chinese, Thai or Indian curry from S'bury's, all out meals are home-produced (even some curries). It could get a bit boring for some people, but nutritional routine and reliability becomes more important with age, I feel. Freezing produce from the garden does help, t.b.h.

On another tack, I used to love corned beef; there are many ways of incorporating this 120 ish year old foodstuff. However, I have an aversion to sodium nitrate (and other additives, to be fair). Can I find corned beef without sodium nitrate? Certainly not in supermarkets. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.

Loads of recipes available on the internet so you can make better food at home than most take aways. We keep a couple of shelves in the kitchen freezer for spices. Big advantage is that you can then control salt an have a different flavour each time; a lot of the Indian meals taste as if they're made from the same base.

If you love corned beef you can reduce the salt and saltpetre to very safe levels by soaking before cooking. I use about 15g Prague powder for a 2kg joint, cure for ten days then soak for 25 / 30 hours before cooking, gets you well into the safe zone.

Without the saltpetre it's just boiled beef.

Apologies for the diversion.
 
I use about 15g Prague powder for a 2kg joint,

Without the saltpetre it's just boiled beef.

Funny that; there's me thinking there was corn in corned beef, and a 2 Kg joint? I've only known it in cans. I'll Czech out the Prague powder though, as I've never heard of it.;)
 
Interesting comment from Michael Gove in HoC a couple of days ago about the impact of a rent freeze, apparently based on what he sees happening in Scotland.

A rent freeze, while often attractive, has the effect, as we have unfortunately seen in Scotland, of reducing the supply of rented homes. Although I know his [Jeremy Corbyn's] heart is in the right place on this issue, the methods he proposes run counter to what we both want to see.


Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation - Hansard - UK Parliament
 
As regards information, what do you want? Every bloody night on the TV there is a slew of food programmes. Last week there was Jamie knocking up a chicken pie for £1 a head and a load of other stuff, Bakeoff, Saturday kitchen, In The Factory, you can spend more time watching food being made than most people actually spend doing it. In fact we do. How much more education do you want? The point is that the public watch all this and then go for something easy because they are knackered after work and it's easier to let someone else do the work. The days where women didn't go to work and spent time making their own pastry, walking from the butcher's to the greengrocer's to get fresh veg and coming home to peel potatoes are gone. We're all wealthy enough to live on takeaways and ready meals if we want to.


Here we go again. The food industry manufactures what people want to buy. It's that simple. I've got a cupboard full of inexpensive high quality food that cost me next to nothing - chicken at £2 a kilo, carrots at 60p a kilo, frozen peas at £1 a kilo, onions at 60p a kilo, cabbage at 50p each, fresh milk at £1.60 for 4 pints (I was paying this 25 years ago) and so on. I could buy chocolate and cakes instead, but I don't.

I wish we were that clever. It's not cheaper, see the examples above. It may be more convenient, well, yes, obviously it's more convenient to buy a pizza than it is to mix dough and grate cheese, but that's the point of food manufacture. Most people don't construct their own houses either, because it's easier to buy one that's already been built.

Buy the chicken, carrots and cabbage I pointed at upthread instead of a packet of biscuits then. It's dirt cheap. I had a can of lentil soup for lunch. Cost? About 50p. Low nutrition? Not really, it's a pile of veg and water, some shreds of ham and lentils in a tin. Labour to prepare? 2 minutes in a microwave. As gratifying as a McDo burger meal, cost £4-5? Probably not, but there are queues outside McDo and 2 supermarkets within 200 yards of the place with piles of tins of soup and fresh bread.
As for political lobbying, let's have a look at how well that went with the recent sugar tax:
Govt: "Soft drinks contain too much sugar and are responsible for obesity, we're going to tax them to reduce consumption"
Industry "You can't do that, it's our livelihood, sugar's a natural food, nobody forces you to drink it. If you do this we'll have to reformulate everything and it will cost thousands"
Govt "Bollocks. Suck it up, we're doing it and you can STFU"
Industry "Harumph harumph. Bloody got to reformulate now."
Cue pretty well every mass market soft drink now coming in under 5% sugar to duck the tax, surprise surprise. Sugar consumption reduced nationally, artificial sweeteners industry cock-a-hoop, soft drinks consumption undiminished.
Bollocks. Likening food manufacturing to tobacco is f**ing cheap. Lobbying, see sugar tax above. The food industry doesn't lobby any more than any other organisiation with a vested interest. Everybody lobbies, that's why they set up working groups with industry representatives, because civil servants can't be expected to be up to date with every industry. As for misinformation, examples please.

I'm sorry if I've triggered you. And you seem to have taken this a bit personally. The food industry literally exists to add value, ie take cheap ingredients like sugar, refined carbs and processed fats and turn them into products with high margins, because no one ever made much money selling carrots, potatoes and lentils. Sweet baked and processed products are by far the cheapest calories you can buy. And not everyone has the life skills, knowledge, education, time and opportunity to make nutritious food from fresh ingredients: obesity, diabetes and other dietary related diseases disproportionately affect poorer people.

I'm assuming you've read Pure, White and Deadly, but just in case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure,_White_and_Deadly
 
I'm sorry if I've triggered you. And you seem to have taken this a bit personally.
Yes I do take offence. Who wouldn't? You earn an honest living manufacturing safe food and because people find cream cakes more attractive than carrots and eat too many this *my* fault?
The food industry literally exists to add value, ie take cheap ingredients like sugar, refined carbs and processed fats and turn them into products with high margins,
Don't be ridiculous. The food industry exists to make food that people want to eat. That they are prepared to pay for, knowing that they could buy potatoes and carrots but they don't want to, because that's hard work and no fun to eat.

e no one ever made much money selling carrots, potatoes and lentils.
Sure. But turn them into a tin of soup and I'll pay enough for it that the manufacturers make a living.

Sweet baked and processed products are by far the cheapest calories you can buy.
No they're not. Vegetable oil, lard, or anything containing similar far outstrips sugar. 9 calories a gram plays 4.

And not everyone has the life skills, knowledge, education, time and opportunity to make nutritious food from fresh ingredients:
Not for want of trying by the education system. I learnt to cook in school when I was 11. As for time, I can make an omelette faster than the moped can get to my front door. My soup took 2 minutes. Not everyone can drive a car. Is this the fault of the automobile manufacturing industry?

obesity, diabetes and other dietary related diseases disproportionately affect poorer people.
They do. Food is gratifying, fast food, confectionery and baked goods especially so. People who seem rapid gratification over long term gains are generally less successful in life. We all know the experiment with the child and the jelly baby that turns into 2 jelly babies if they can hold off eating it for 2 minutes.

m assuming you've read Pure, White and Deadly, but just in case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure,_White_and_Deadly
Printed in 1972. So it's only 50 years old. Come on, has nothing changed in half a century?
 
The food industry pumps out poor-quality food because there's a decent profit in it (and there's demand). Obviously, the food industry is not solely responsible for the obesity problem but it could do more to educate people on nutrition and good food standards. Warning labels on ultra-processed foods might also help.

Far too many eat too much and don't take anywhere near enough exercise, which has just as big an impact, if not more so than the food that is produced. Granted, there is way too much unnecessary sugar in ready meals and sauces but with the right portion control and exercise I believe the effects of these would be minimal
 
Yes I do take offence. Who wouldn't? You earn an honest living manufacturing safe food and because people find cream cakes more attractive than carrots and eat too many this *my* fault?

Don't be ridiculous. The food industry exists to make food that people want to eat. That they are prepared to pay for, knowing that they could buy potatoes and carrots but they don't want to, because that's hard work and no fun to eat.

Sure. But turn them into a tin of soup and I'll pay enough for it that the manufacturers make a living.

No they're not. Vegetable oil, lard, or anything containing similar far outstrips sugar. 9 calories a gram plays 4.

Not for want of trying by the education system. I learnt to cook in school when I was 11. As for time, I can make an omelette faster than the moped can get to my front door. My soup took 2 minutes. Not everyone can drive a car. Is this the fault of the automobile manufacturing industry?


They do. Food is gratifying, fast food, confectionery and baked goods especially so. People who seem rapid gratification over long term gains are generally less successful in life. We all know the experiment with the child and the jelly baby that turns into 2 jelly babies if they can hold off eating it for 2 minutes.

Printed in 1972. So it's only 50 years old. Come on, has nothing changed in half a century?

You are hopelessly partisan and prejudiced, so it's not really worth while engaging further.
 
Why would they feel inclined to tell us how bad their food is for us?
Surely it’s the responsibility of the consumer to buy what they feel is healthy.
It’s pretty obvious to me & I don’t need some mp or chef to enlighten me. Just read the back of any ready meal, it’s all there with colour coded warnings on the front.
People are lazy, we all have to work hard but I cook fresh ingredients everyday for my family.
It doesn’t take long & it’s pretty satisfying.
Fresh ingredients are not expensive if you shop carefully.
The same people that complain about the price of a chicken going up to £5 are buying themselves a latte for £3.50 without a second‘s thought.
 
As regards information, what do you want? Every bloody night on the TV there is a slew of food programmes. Last week there was Jamie knocking up a chicken pie for £1 a head and a load of other stuff, Bakeoff, Saturday kitchen, In The Factory, you can spend more time watching food being made than most people actually spend doing it. In fact we do. How much more education do you want? The point is that the public watch all this and then go for something easy because they are knackered after work and it's easier to let someone else do the work. The days where women didn't go to work and spent time making their own pastry, walking from the butcher's to the greengrocer's to get fresh veg and coming home to peel potatoes are gone. We're all wealthy enough to live on takeaways and ready meals if we want to.


Here we go again. The food industry manufactures what people want to buy. It's that simple. I've got a cupboard full of inexpensive high quality food that cost me next to nothing - chicken at £2 a kilo, carrots at 60p a kilo, frozen peas at £1 a kilo, onions at 60p a kilo, cabbage at 50p each, fresh milk at £1.60 for 4 pints (I was paying this 25 years ago) and so on. I could buy chocolate and cakes instead, but I don't.

I wish we were that clever. It's not cheaper, see the examples above. It may be more convenient, well, yes, obviously it's more convenient to buy a pizza than it is to mix dough and grate cheese, but that's the point of food manufacture. Most people don't construct their own houses either, because it's easier to buy one that's already been built.

Buy the chicken, carrots and cabbage I pointed at upthread instead of a packet of biscuits then. It's dirt cheap. I had a can of lentil soup for lunch. Cost? About 50p. Low nutrition? Not really, it's a pile of veg and water, some shreds of ham and lentils in a tin. Labour to prepare? 2 minutes in a microwave. As gratifying as a McDo burger meal, cost £4-5? Probably not, but there are queues outside McDo and 2 supermarkets within 200 yards of the place with piles of tins of soup and fresh bread.
As for political lobbying, let's have a look at how well that went with the recent sugar tax:
Govt: "Soft drinks contain too much sugar and are responsible for obesity, we're going to tax them to reduce consumption"
Industry "You can't do that, it's our livelihood, sugar's a natural food, nobody forces you to drink it. If you do this we'll have to reformulate everything and it will cost thousands"
Govt "Bollocks. Suck it up, we're doing it and you can STFU"
Industry "Harumph harumph. Bloody got to reformulate now."
Cue pretty well every mass market soft drink now coming in under 5% sugar to duck the tax, surprise surprise. Sugar consumption reduced nationally, artificial sweeteners industry cock-a-hoop, soft drinks consumption undiminished.
Bollocks. Likening food manufacturing to tobacco is f**ing cheap. Lobbying, see sugar tax above. The food industry doesn't lobby any more than any other organisiation with a vested interest. Everybody lobbies, that's why they set up working groups with industry representatives, because civil servants can't be expected to be up to date with every industry. As for misinformation, examples please.

Can you advise where you get chicken for £2/kilo please Steve, it might be worth my while nipping across from Cas to buy it at that price.
 
I pretty much stopped all spending on pre prepared food and drinks last year, I don't know how people manage it buying their breakfast/lunch and a couple of coffees every day. We've got used to the convenience I think and some people value that over the money saved from cutting it out.
 
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