Hifiman Sundara

[rubycat]

Can we stop repeating the foolish claim that headphones (and equipment, cables ) needs a long burn in before the sound reveals itself, this oft quoted claim has been debunked numerous times by actual scientific measurement and testing, your ears become acclimatised to a change in sound over a period of use.

Its in the instruction manual and they make the phones after all, HiFiman should know what they are on about, or do you know better than them?

 

[Somafunk]

Yes, extensive testing has proved otherwise.

 

[hifi-dog]

well the hd660's have arrived and been running for a few hrs - a darker slightly less toppy sound than the sundara, but enough detail.. proper listen over the weekend andfter they've been running for another 24hrs

 

[RoA]

well the hd660's have arrived and been running for a few hrs - a darker slightly less toppy sound than the sundara, but enough detail.. proper listen over the weekend andfter they've been running for another 24hrs

Fantastic. Let us know how you get on. I just received my 58X Jubilee but need more time with it. Initial impressions are good and of course different to the Sundara (which was the reason for ordering a 6 series in the first place).

 

[hifi-dog]

Fantastic. Let us know how you get on. I just received my 58X Jubilee but need more time with it. Initial impressions are good and of course different to the Sundara (which was the reason for ordering a 6 series in the first place).

Oh and jus got a chord mojo to power them!

 

[RoA]

Oh and jus got a chord mojo to power them!

Is that version 2?

 

[hifi-dog]

No the original one but a late one with little use.. good price too.

 

[Wenger]

I am in the closing stages of building a small, select Headphone selection (just as I have a similar selection of amplifiers which I regularly use).

I have a Grado SR80x, a Beyerdynamic DT700 ProX and am awaiting a Sennheiser HD58x Jubilee. I would like to add one more headphone, different to the others which in themselves differ from each other.

The Sundara seems to be the darling of the Headphone press, almost universally praised for good sound and condemned because of build quality issues.

I would order from a reputable dealer or Amazon so the latter doesn't worry me much. I have read loads of reviews but perhaps you can add something if you own a pair.

Thank you

Maybe try a used pair from Focal.

 

[m7rso]

I have not heard the Sundara , but Deva and 400s/modded and liked them both very much. Are they all open backed that you have, if so, some closed. Oppo 2 or 3 I would suggest.

 

[jandl100]

I started off not being very impressed with the Sundara.
I found them disappointingly a bit smoothed off both dynamically and tonally.
Pleasant background music rather than an intensely focused and involving listening experience. Sleepy.

I must admit I was thinking of moving mine on.

But, even more than most headphones I've had, the Sundara seem to wake up with the right amplifier synergy.
Imo, most amps don't impart sufficient control and precision. Sundara really need to be gripped imo.

For me, the Sundara have only really come to life with SMSL sAp ii (mains powered) and a FiiO E12 (portable) amps.

I've got other, some bigger and 'better', amps but none have the right characteristics imo.

The Sundara have come off my move-them-on list with those 2 amps.
They aren't explosively exciting or punchy, I suspect that's rather beyond them, but at least they are now an interesting listen.

Just my 2c cents. Ymmv.

 

[RoA]

I started off not being very impressed with the Sundara.
I found them disappointingly a bit smoothed off both dynamically and tonally.
Pleasant background music rather than an intensely focused and involving listening experience. Sleepy.

I must admit I was thinking of moving mine on.

But, even more than most headphones I've had, the Sundara seem to wake up with the right amplifier synergy.
Imo, most amps don't impart sufficient control and precision. Sundara really need to be gripped imo.

For me, the Sundara have only really come to life with SMSL sAp ii (mains powered) and a FiiO E12 (portable) amps.

I've got other, some bigger and 'better', amps but none have the right characteristics imo.

The Sundara have come off my move-them-on list with those 2 amps.
They aren't explosively exciting or punchy, I suspect that's rather beyond them, but at least they are now an interesting listen.

Just my 2c cents. Ymmv.

I'd agree. I was somewhat disappointed with them initially after all those raving reviews. Since having the Mojo they are far more in line with my tastes. I would say they are the equivilant to my Audiolab 6000A; evenly balanced, mature sounding with no annoying traits. Lacking that last bit of excitement but for that capable of listening to for long times. No serious weaknesses (to my ears) but also not excelling in anything (other than being good value for a Planar). I think that is as much as one can ask of a Headphone at this price. - Of course they have the advantage of Planars that distortion is low. - I will keep them for the moment.

 

[Avon]

I bought my Sundaras less than two years ago, when they cost about £300. They have such a tight grip on the bass, which is why I’m completely happy with them. They replaced my Meze 99 Classics, which were boomy and uncontrolled, so it wasn’t possible for me to follow bass guitars etc.

When I first bought them, they sounded OK but rather bass light. I left them running for about a week, without listening to them, by which time the sound had transformed. Since this has been “debunked numerous times by actual scientific measurement and testing”, my ears must have become accustomed to them, during the week I was away.

I don’t recommend using them with a phone, as they’re probably not sensitive enough, plus they're open backed, so the sound leaks out. I had to buy a longer cable, as the one supplied was way too short.

 

[RoA]

I bought my Sundaras less than two years ago, when they cost about £300. They have such a tight grip on the bass, which is why I’m completely happy with them. They replaced my Meze 99 Classics, which were boomy and uncontrolled, so it wasn’t possible for me to follow bass guitars etc.

When I first bought them, they sounded OK but rather bass light. I left them running for about a week, without listening to them, by which time the sound had transformed. Since this has been “debunked numerous times by actual scientific measurement and testing”, my ears must have become accustomed to them, during the week I was away.

I don’t recommend using them with a phone, as they’re probably not sensitive enough, plus they're open backed, so the sound leaks out. I had to buy a longer cable, as the one supplied was way too short.

I have both the above. Have to say I really like the Meze's but they do benefit from some Roon or Chord Mojo EQ. Once done so they are superb. They won't go anywhere.

 

[firestorm]

Bought a pair of Linsoul Tripowin GranVia balanced cables for my Sundara to connect to my A&K SR15, so 2.5mm 4 pole to 2 x 3.5mm.
Still getting used to them, so far better than the original cable.
I'll report back later.

 

[steveinspain]

Bought a pair of Linsoul Tripowin GranVia balanced cables for my Sundara to connect to my A&K SR15, so 2.5mm 4 pole to 2 x 3.5mm.
Still getting used to them, so far better than the original cable.
I'll report back later.

Please do - I'd be interested to know what balanced cables add over standard unbalanced.

 

[firestorm]

@steveinspain will do
I suspect my SR15 isn't man enough to drive the Sundara, I was hoping it would do better in balanced mode. So far I've only used it for 2 hrs. It's better than the original single ended cable, but not as good as I'd expect.
The Granvia cables is quite well made, it's soft and non-tangling. I chose the original length as I'll be using close to me. There are other lengthier options. It's braided and covered in a cloth-type material. Less microphonic than the original. Even if it didn't sound any better, I prefer it. I need to pull my finger out and build the balanced HP amp kit I bought a few years ago.

 

[firestorm]

Update on the balanced cables

• A&K SR15
• Original Sundara SE cable
• Linsoul Tripowin Granvia balanced cables

I've swapped back to the original cables. I listened on various types of music, regular 16bit 44KHz, and higher res stuff. Different genres.

The balanced cables are a tangible improvement over the original. The SR15 drives the Sundaras better than with the original SE cable. A-B comparison it's louder, so I can turn the volume down a few clicks.

Of course ymmv. It may be because the cable is better full stop. Or it's particular to the SR15 and Sundara, as you have two halves of the amp working in push-pull instead of half the amp in SE. Perhaps with a more capable headphone output (amp) then the difference may not be so marked.

Why did I think it wasn't an improvement initially? I relied on memory and didn't compare straight away. This isn't a blind test, so take my opinion as just that.
I don't have a balanced amp (yet).

For 49USD delivered to my door in less than 2 weeks from China, it's worth it.

A third scenario

• A&K SR15
  
• Objective 2 Headphone amp
• Cheap generic 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable
• Original Sundara SE cable

This sounds good. Much better than the SR15 and original cable.
I can't hear much difference between this and the SR15 with the balanced cable.
The balanced may be slightly better.

In all three scenarios used the same headphones, same source, same music.
I switched to my AKG K701 for a quick comparison, they sound a little creamier, richer, but lost some definition and texture throughout the spectrum.

 

[steveinspain]

Update on the balanced cables

• A&K SR15
• Original Sundara SE cable
• Linsoul Tripowin Granvia balanced cables

I've swapped back to the original cables. I listened on various types of music, regular 16bit 44KHz, and higher res stuff. Different genres.

The balanced cables are a tangible improvement over the original. The SR15 drives the Sundaras better than with the original SE cable. A-B comparison it's louder, so I can turn the volume down a few clicks.

Of course ymmv. It may be because the cable is better full stop. Or it's particular to the SR15 and Sundara, as you have two halves of the amp working in push-pull instead of half the amp in SE. Perhaps with a more capable headphone output (amp) then the difference may not be so marked.

Why did I think it wasn't an improvement initially? I relied on memory and didn't compare straight away. This isn't a blind test, so take my opinion as just that.
I don't have a balanced amp (yet).

For 49USD delivered to my door in less than 2 weeks from China, it's worth it.

A third scenario

• A&K SR15
  
• Objective 2 Headphone amp
• Cheap generic 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable
• Original Sundara SE cable

This sounds good. Much better than the SR15 and original cable.
I can't hear much difference between this and the SR15 with the balanced cable.
The balanced may be slightly better.

In all three scenarios used the same headphones, same source, same music.
I switched to my AKG K701 for a quick comparison, they sound a little creamier, richer, but lost some definition and texture throughout the spectrum.

Thanks very much for taking the time, all very helpful!
I'm still trying to work out which headphones to keep from the comfort side of things but once I get there I'll definitely get some balanced cables - I've heard mentioned Forza Audio works as another brand to look into which seem to be another step up in price and maybe quality..?
https://forzaaudioworks.com/en/

 

[firestorm]

No bother at all.
I believe I'm hearing the effects of the SR15 driving the Sundaras better in balanced mode more than anything else.
Going for better usually means we start to encroach on to the law of diminishing returns. I'll usually buy something that should be better than the freebie. Much beyond that, I'm a lot more wary.
I also bought a pair of cheapo IEM too, they're not bad. Only used them for about 5 hrs so far. I've gone for an entry level balanced cable from Linsoul. They're fine on the move if you require isolation, which the Sundara is poor at providing.

 

[robs]

If anyone is looking for a pair, this just popped up on hotUKdeals - new for £239.20 delivered using code SPOOKY20 on eBay:

HiFi Man Sundara Headphones - Wired Hi-Fi Planar Magnetic Over Ear 3.5mm Black | eBay

HiFi Man Sundara Headphones offers an all-new innovative headband design for an accurate fit and increased comfort as well as a full aluminium ear enclosure. All of this lends to the unheard of value in this great new Planar Design.

www.ebay.co.uk