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"hifi"/guitar amp valves?

guydarryl

pfm Member
I have just been looking at Watford valves descriptions of the valves they sell. Most reviews there seem to refer to use in guitar amps.

I think I know the answer to this already, but here we go:
is it possible to relate findings in guitar amp reviews to what one would experience in a "hifi" amp?

example:
"In Guitar applications, the Groove Tube EL34M has a wonderfully rounded midrange with a slightly recessed treble response. The valve has an excellent distorted sound which is rounded and smooth giving both harmonic warmth and clarity.
https://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=3507

Sounds great for a player - not so good for reproduction?
 
Watford valves is a good, reliable company and you can buy with confidence. I've only used them for guitar amp valves though. Your question really boils down to one about modern vs vintage valves...
 
Thanks, I know of Watford valves from years back and have no complaints about them (or their descriptions) :)

Is the distortion sought by a guitar player desirable in a hi fi amp? I assume the distortion is a function of the guitar input/overload in to the amp and different valves response to overload/too high a level of input?

I think my question (for me anyway) is more about can comments made regarding a valve in a guitar amp give any clues to how it may sound in a "hifi" application.

As you suggest,part of my reason for asking does come down to new vs old though.
I have had a bit of a clear out at home. Funds from this allowed me to buy an Art Audio Quintet second hand (uses EL34's).

During my clear out I found two NOS (still in original packing) Mullard EL34's must come from '60's/70's amongst quite a few GZ32, KT66, 7581a's and EF36.
One of the EL34's is kaput - white powder/oxidation inside.

So I was trying to weigh up; do I try to source 3x Mullard EL34's (mega bucks :() or do I sell the one good one to fund buying a matched set of new EL34's. Hence my looking at Watford valves for guidance on available brands.
 
Thanks, I know of Watford valves from years back and have no complaints about them (or their descriptions) :)

Is the distortion sought by a guitar player desirable in a hi fi amp? I assume the distortion is a function of the guitar input/overload in to the amp and different valves response to overload/too high a level of input?

You don't want distortion in a hifi valve, no. A guitar amp is meant to saturate and distort whereas a hifi amp is the opposite so the descriptions are irrelevant. As long as the codes are the same the valve will be a modern equivalent of the old designs. I'll leave it to someone else to say what you should buy...
 
...
I think I know the answer to this already, but here we go:
is it possible to relate findings in guitar amp reviews to what one would experience in a "hifi" amp? ...

Pointless looking. I would guess Watford sell a lot more valves to guitarists than hifi enthusiasts, hence their slant in the reviews.
There are hifi related EL34 reviews on the web if you look for them.
Problem is there is no single 'best', as like on here, everyone hears things differently and has their own best or favourite. Even then, differences are pretty subtle and after a days use you 'get used to' whatever you have at that time. (Just an example https://blog.thetubestore.com/audiophile-review-el34-family-tube-comparison/ but look for yourself and add to the confusion...)
Buy a matched quad from a reputable dealer who will replace any failures, or have a look for reliability as well as sonics?
What did the amp come with and does Art Audio have recommendations for replacements?
Do not bother trying to match old Mullards to the one you have. Keep it and it will go up in value.
 
Forget about valve reviews unless they have been reviewed in the amp you use , there are too many variables in the circuit design that have an impact on the way your amp sounds for them to have any merit .
 
Opening a tough window into reality, subjective opinions are of value only to the person expressing them.

Just think about it: what are the chances their preferences, expectations, use of descriptors, hearing-acuity, audio system, room acoustics, musical tastes, (&c &c ad naus.), are all the same as yours? None at-all. Shift one step further over to guitar amps and the meaninglessness almost forms a vacuum...

Differences between valves can be very subtle, depending on the equipment they're used in, but as a broad rule of thumb (with countless caveats that no doubt someone will feel compelled to bore-on about...), old European valves > old American valves > old Russian valves > new Russian valves > new Chinese valves

Buy well from a seller with good rep, as there's a lot of half-dead old crap out there at lottery-winner prices, and it's not even exactly rare for BNiB stuff to be DOA...
 
Opening a tough window into reality, subjective opinions are of value only to the person expressing them.

Just think about it: what are the chances their preferences, expectations, use of descriptors, hearing-acuity, audio system, room acoustics, musical tastes, (&c &c ad naus.), are all the same as yours? None at-all. ............

rather negates the point of asking for peoples views on forums :D
 
What will we do instead?
I think that I shall put some music on the gramophone while I have a ponder.

BTW comments about the quality of clean tones are more than likely applicable to hifi use, things like 'early break up' are not going to be good e.g. in a 12AX7 preamp valve.
 
FWIW I have a valve guitar amp (a Rift PR6, which is a fancy low-power Fender Princeton clone) and it shares a couple of valve types (ECC81 & 83) with my Leak and Verdier hi-fi kit. I’d say the traits carry over, e.g. a valve that sounds bright/crisp or warm/weighty in one does so in all. I’ve certainly tube-rolled it by ear to my taste just as I have the hi-fi kit. I’ll caveat this by pointing out I only play clean, never loud enough to get anything more than a very slight hint of compression/fatness (it is only a 6Watt amp, but it is still bloody loud, I play between 2 & 3 on the volume knob!). If I want dirt I use a fuzz pedal, I’m never distorting the amp. I’ve actually got some valuable valves in it at present, e.g. a box-plate Mullard ECC83 in the input position. Nice to have something that doesn’t use matched pairs of valves so I can use my really good odd ones! IIRC I’ve got some nice RCAs and Sylvanias elsewhere in it.
 


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