Hazelberry
sister
Does anyone know how the second version of the HB3 compares to the first one? All I know is that they look very similar and were made by Mecom, as I understand it.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Heybrook HB3 S2
- Thread starter Hazelberry
- Start date
The Captain
~~~~~~~~~~
Robert would have been the one to ask... perhaps best to go to World designs Forum/ Peter C himself posts there.
Hazelberry
sister
Thanks for the lead, Captain.
DSJR
Between us and them
The HB3 was always a tricky one, but get it right and it would involve and entertain beautifuly.
It's so long ago now, but I recall the series 2 version was a little easier - the waywardness of the first version tamed somewhat.
Peter C is very approachable on the WD forum and I'm sure he'd love to share his memories of his thirty plus year old design with you.
It's so long ago now, but I recall the series 2 version was a little easier - the waywardness of the first version tamed somewhat.
Peter C is very approachable on the WD forum and I'm sure he'd love to share his memories of his thirty plus year old design with you.
As I recall, the Mk2 was a touch less aggressive than the original. I believe it was just a crossover tweak to appease those with sensitive hearing but to me, the original was right up my street.
The Mk1 mid and H/F had a great influence on the design of the original ProAc Tablette.
The Mk1 mid and H/F had a great influence on the design of the original ProAc Tablette.
Hazelberry
sister
Bingo! Here's PC himself on the HB3s in a WD thread:
Difference between Series 1 and Series II HB3 was
a) the midrange was moved above the treble unit to improve phase integration. As naimart says the imaging was almost holographic.
b) the crossover was refined to reflect the better phase integration.
i don't recall them being more difficult to drive. Efficiency remained the same and I don't think the impedance was more difficult, but then it was a long time ago.
The HB3, and the HB1, were designed to be placed against a rear wall and sound mid forward if free standing as a result. it also helps if one wall in the room is solid (though it doesn't have to be the one behind the speakers).
Finally, like many designs of that period, they ARE very revealing of the source.
Seeing a pair for sale locally has piqued my interest. I feel there is a good chance Mrs Durmbo would approve of their sound because the HB1 S2s are her favourite speakers. Unfortunately, she is not at all taken with the HB3's rather, um, "challenging" appearance, so they will need to be well disguised should they find their way into the lounge...
Difference between Series 1 and Series II HB3 was
a) the midrange was moved above the treble unit to improve phase integration. As naimart says the imaging was almost holographic.
b) the crossover was refined to reflect the better phase integration.
i don't recall them being more difficult to drive. Efficiency remained the same and I don't think the impedance was more difficult, but then it was a long time ago.
The HB3, and the HB1, were designed to be placed against a rear wall and sound mid forward if free standing as a result. it also helps if one wall in the room is solid (though it doesn't have to be the one behind the speakers).
Finally, like many designs of that period, they ARE very revealing of the source.
Seeing a pair for sale locally has piqued my interest. I feel there is a good chance Mrs Durmbo would approve of their sound because the HB1 S2s are her favourite speakers. Unfortunately, she is not at all taken with the HB3's rather, um, "challenging" appearance, so they will need to be well disguised should they find their way into the lounge...
Hazelberry
sister
ampman, that's a shame the HB1s didn't work out for you. I use mine with A60, Rega, Denon bits and bobs, and hard against the wall (which I wish was more solid). What series were your speakers?
As an aside, I found mine edgy and dipping in the midrange some months ago after a relocation and put the Diamonds in the system. The HB1s had always sounded good so I'd put the problem down to the new room. Just the other day I had a "try something simple" idea and bought some stranded wire to replace the thin solid core internal wiring to the tweeters. I performed the operation today. And lo, when I opened up the second speaker, verily did I see how one of the tweeter wires had broken near the crossover. So I can't be sure if the new wiring has improved things or not, but the speakers do sound very much better.
As an aside, I found mine edgy and dipping in the midrange some months ago after a relocation and put the Diamonds in the system. The HB1s had always sounded good so I'd put the problem down to the new room. Just the other day I had a "try something simple" idea and bought some stranded wire to replace the thin solid core internal wiring to the tweeters. I performed the operation today. And lo, when I opened up the second speaker, verily did I see how one of the tweeter wires had broken near the crossover. So I can't be sure if the new wiring has improved things or not, but the speakers do sound very much better.
DSJR
Between us and them
HB1's these days are "all fur coat and no knickers," the brash, tinkly sound mimicking "detail" very well but not actually reproducing any of substance we found at the time. The later ones spat more from new than the originals, but a change of bass/mid unit caused this as I recall.
I've heard HB3's sound dire and also wonderful, so I hope the pair you buy can be used to advantage. Crossover caps may need to be replaced as I don't know how good or bad they were and one big sheet of acoustic foam should disguise the trim strip properly.
I've heard HB3's sound dire and also wonderful, so I hope the pair you buy can be used to advantage. Crossover caps may need to be replaced as I don't know how good or bad they were and one big sheet of acoustic foam should disguise the trim strip properly.
Hazelberry
sister
hifi_dave and DSJR: thanks, I appreciate your experience and opinions.
These are the series 2 HB3s, with a grey baffle and a black grill that exposes the top corners of the speakers. Acoustic foam sounds like a better solution. Something textured like Sara grilles would be ideal, if unlikely to be available. The rest of my system may not be up to them (nor my room - I wouldn't be able to place them more than a metre apart!) but I'm sure I could find them a good home if they don't work out. Also, they're selling by auction so I could miss out on them anyway.
Ha ha! Do you mean the ones with the two ports at the front? And they never improve with the caps and drivers, um, bedding in?
Googling just now, I think I must have series 3 HB1s from the mid 90s. Braced, sealed box (mine are in Henry Ford black ash), biwirable, 8" Vifa bass-mid, Vifa D26-TF tweeter - does that sound right, anyone?
These are the series 2 HB3s, with a grey baffle and a black grill that exposes the top corners of the speakers. Acoustic foam sounds like a better solution. Something textured like Sara grilles would be ideal, if unlikely to be available. The rest of my system may not be up to them (nor my room - I wouldn't be able to place them more than a metre apart!) but I'm sure I could find them a good home if they don't work out. Also, they're selling by auction so I could miss out on them anyway.
Ha ha! Do you mean the ones with the two ports at the front? And they never improve with the caps and drivers, um, bedding in?
Googling just now, I think I must have series 3 HB1s from the mid 90s. Braced, sealed box (mine are in Henry Ford black ash), biwirable, 8" Vifa bass-mid, Vifa D26-TF tweeter - does that sound right, anyone?
RustyB
Registered Ginga
HB3's make for a more room-friendly substitute for Briks, if you want a classic 3-way that sits against the wall and boogies. Upgrade the tweeters and wiring, and you have a bloody good speaker for not much dosh.
As for the HB1 I'm still bemused as to how PJC got such a good sound out of those Vifa polyamides, as they generally sound awful in other applications. Must be more to it than the box behind.
As for the HB1 I'm still bemused as to how PJC got such a good sound out of those Vifa polyamides, as they generally sound awful in other applications. Must be more to it than the box behind.
FWIW I made some grills for my HB3s and they look miles better now. I got rid of the go-faster stripe through the middle and made the grills from plywood and wilmslow accoustic cloth. The Wooden frames don't appear to detract from the sound in any way and in any case I can easily pop the grills off.
I have also changed the tweeters for the basic Vifa soft dome also from Wilmslow. They sound lovely although I have not yet messed about with the wiring or crossover components, so maybe they could sound even better... I have a feeling that Wilmslow do a better replacement tweeter that works out at about £50 each. This is tempting as it may improve them still further. Anyone tried them?
I agree that for very little money and a little bit of effort they take some beating and sound great on the front of my M130s. My Obelisk also drives them beautifully.
I have also changed the tweeters for the basic Vifa soft dome also from Wilmslow. They sound lovely although I have not yet messed about with the wiring or crossover components, so maybe they could sound even better... I have a feeling that Wilmslow do a better replacement tweeter that works out at about £50 each. This is tempting as it may improve them still further. Anyone tried them?
I agree that for very little money and a little bit of effort they take some beating and sound great on the front of my M130s. My Obelisk also drives them beautifully.
Hazelberry
sister
To my great surprise, I got the HB3s - and their stands - with what I considered a low absentee bid.
They're in good condition for their age. One of the midrange surrounds is flagging but doesn't seem to affect the sound. I'll try a spot of glue to tide it over unless someone has a better suggestion. The cabinets have a scratch here and there, nothing drastic. I think the crossover caps are fine. There's a big handful of film caps in each speaker and replacing them would be an expensive and possibly pointless exercise.
It's been a very long time since I heard a pair of speakers convey the sheer enjoyment of playing music as these do, and never before in my system. And here was I thinking just yesterday how good the Diamonds and HB1s are in that regard. And while I'm sure I could still enjoy them, the HB3s are in another league and ballpark.
Mrs D said, "They're so sunny, aren't they? Nothing dark about them at all. And they aren't as ugly as I expected. I think they're keepers!"
They're in good condition for their age. One of the midrange surrounds is flagging but doesn't seem to affect the sound. I'll try a spot of glue to tide it over unless someone has a better suggestion. The cabinets have a scratch here and there, nothing drastic. I think the crossover caps are fine. There's a big handful of film caps in each speaker and replacing them would be an expensive and possibly pointless exercise.
It's been a very long time since I heard a pair of speakers convey the sheer enjoyment of playing music as these do, and never before in my system. And here was I thinking just yesterday how good the Diamonds and HB1s are in that regard. And while I'm sure I could still enjoy them, the HB3s are in another league and ballpark.
Mrs D said, "They're so sunny, aren't they? Nothing dark about them at all. And they aren't as ugly as I expected. I think they're keepers!"
zarniwoop
hoopy frood
Wilmslow do a drop-in replacement. I can't recall the make and number, but they'll know, and if you search these fora you'll find reference to it. I haven't fitted my replacements yet, but they are supposed to be very close in sound to the original. Alternatively you can buy a kit to replace the foam surround and keep the original. This requires you to be handy with a craft knife and glue, or find someone who is.
Hazelberry
sister
I found that thread, cheers. Ha, I made a ham-fisted post in it with no idea I'd become an HB3 owner just a few months later. Do your mids have rotten surrounds, too? Since my drivers still work I think I'd rather try for a refoam.
A great thing about these speakers is that they allow the rest of the system to really shine. While my components are relatively modest, nothing upstream is shamed, and the best aspects are highlighted. How gracious is that? The Denon CD player sounds superb, way better than it ever has, so it looks like my previous speakers were only tying it down.
I love how the music just flows. I hear none of the treble spit that some have reported. I could nitpick about treble extension and bass tightness but TBH, I forget about those things as soon as I think of them because everything is so of a piece and because they are so articulate. Tonally they're as good as anything I've heard. Their imaging is incredible. I only wish I could have them more than a metre apart, and have more distant neighbours
</gush>
A great thing about these speakers is that they allow the rest of the system to really shine. While my components are relatively modest, nothing upstream is shamed, and the best aspects are highlighted. How gracious is that? The Denon CD player sounds superb, way better than it ever has, so it looks like my previous speakers were only tying it down.
I love how the music just flows. I hear none of the treble spit that some have reported. I could nitpick about treble extension and bass tightness but TBH, I forget about those things as soon as I think of them because everything is so of a piece and because they are so articulate. Tonally they're as good as anything I've heard. Their imaging is incredible. I only wish I could have them more than a metre apart, and have more distant neighbours
</gush>
zarniwoop
hoopy frood
Yes. When I can make time I'm going to drop in the replacement mids, and then repair the originals and do a comparison. Realistically this won't be for months yet.
Hazelberry
sister
Eh? You don't have half an hour to fetch an Allen key and soldering kit, perform the transplant, and stick the speakers back in position? Unless you need to re-rout the baffle and drill new bolt holes...