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Hercules Linn LP12 power supply

Discussion in 'audio' started by rhgbristol, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. rhgbristol

    rhgbristol pfm Member

    Has anyone here experienced similar problems to me regarding the Hercules power supply units regards starting the Linn Sondek LP12 deck at 45 rpm?

    I have owned three of these units over the last 9 years or so, all bought brand new - and of the three, two have been problematic.

    The first one was the unit fitted inside the LP12 deck. Symptoms were that despite starting and running the deck perfectly at 33rpm (red led on), the unit just could not start the deck reliably at 45pm (blue light on) - either not turning it at all, or running it very slowly, with it never reaching anywhere even near 45rpm.
    A brand new genuine linn motor and belt, and correct speed set up did not help either.

    More recently, another brand new Hercules - this time the 'Mose Gold' unit (external psu housing) exhibited exactly the same symptoms on another deck - again, with new genuine motor, belt and full set up.

    It seems that the units just do not have the 'oomph' to get the deck started and running at 45rpm.

    In both cases, if you spun the platter up to speed by hand, once the blue light was on, the unit would hold 45rpm perfectly.

    Any thoughts from anyone?
  2. sktn77a

    sktn77a pfm Member

    If I remember correctly, you're not supposed to start the Hercules II at 45. Rather, you start it at 33 and then switch to 45(?)
  3. mjroe

    mjroe pfm Member

    It's usually accepted that you should give all belt driven decks a bit of a 'kick/flick' to get them going, regardless of speed.

    I have an LP12 with a Hercules and have always given the platter a bit of a spin whilst turning it on - obviously at 45rpm more of a 'kick' is needed. This was explained to me when I bought the deck - makes sense because it will reduce wear and stretching of the belt.

    My Dad's old BD1 had a little felt kicker on the rotary on-off switch that would give the platter a startup kick at switch on - so I guess it's always been an accepted 'thing'.
  4. rhgbristol

    rhgbristol pfm Member

    Thank you for your replies so far - intersting, and my comments would be:

    None of the three Hercules I had bought mention this start up technique in their instructions.

    A Linn lingo 2 that I had new from 2008 to 2012 certainly never needed a manual push to get it going.

    Regards starting at 33 and then switching to 45 whilst the turntable was revolving - I had tried this and thought similar, but when pushing and holding the switch to latch the 45 rpm, the turntable slows from 33, almost as if braking, before attempting to get going at 45. It then falters, the same as It does when starting at 45 rpm from stationary.

    I know what you mean about belt stretch however - the Ariston RD11 the predecessor to the lp12 has a felt clutch washer on the motor pully to help start up.

    It just seems ridiculous that for a deck that has been in production for so long and been developed so much over the last 45 years, you need to push it to start it!!

    I still maintain, that compared to the Lingo, based on my experiences over the last 8 years, the Hercules does not have enough torque to start the deck reliably every time at 45 rpm.
  5. Barrymagrec

    Barrymagrec pfm Member

    Does the Hercules supply extra voltage for 45 rpm operation? If not then starting torque will be significantly reduced compared with 33 rpm since the impedance of the windings will be greater at the higher frequency hence passing less current (torque) for a given voltage.

    Synchronous motors provide relatively low torque until they are running at synchronous speed.

    The old BD1 had a kick starter, partly I seem to remember because it was 50 / 50 which direction of rotation the motor would start up in and so it needed a nudge.
  6. TPA

    TPA Trade: Tiger Paw

    I don't know about the Hercules, but the Lingo starts with a higher voltage and then drops it once the platter is up to speed. The only occasion I've used a Hercules it seemed to be happy enough to get up to speed, might be worth changing the oil etc, see if that helps.

    YNWOAN 100% Analogue

    Yes, the Lingo does this but the Hercules does not (It's much more like a Valhalla). It's a good idea to help a platter up to speed but it shouldn't actually be necessary unless using a deck like the Nottingham Analogue designs.
  8. cre009

    cre009 pfm Member

    I purchased a Lingo for my LP12 in the mid 90s and when I got it home the deck started going backwards (I think on both speeds) and needed a push to get it going properly. I took it back to the dealer and whatever they did fixed the problem which has not reoccurred since. The assistant told me they had not noticed the issue the first time because the guy who did the set up always pushed the platter at start.
  9. suzywong

    suzywong Wot, no electrons?

    Er, let me get this the OP used to have a Lingo 2 on his LP12 and then downgraded it for not one, but three Hercules??


    And FWIW, my Lingo 1 does not need a kick-start of the platter even when going straight to 45. However the point about belt stretching during start up is a good one.
  10. amazement

    amazement pfm Member

    My understanding is the Hercules has a lower voltage and takes more time getting up to speed. I don't give mine a push as it soon gets to speed after a few seconds. I always start at 33 and get up to speed before switching to 45, so the procedure is press start allow to reach 33 speed, press off and in quick succession press on and hold until red light 45 appears.
    Should get you going following these steps.
    to re cap : switch on to 33, off and quick on again holding the start switch down until red light aluminates.
  11. rhgbristol

    rhgbristol pfm Member

    Simples - A number of different decks, in different systems and at different times - two of my own, and one of my brothers - Hercules was poor on all three occasions - hence my decision to bite the bullet and go back to a Lingo now and 'do the job properly'.
    'Buy cheap - buy twice' - as they say!

    I think one of the other responses here hits the nail on the head - the Hercules does not seem to provide an increased voltage on start up - particularly at 45rpm, whereas the Lingo - as a more complex and better piece of kit - does.

    This makes sense, because my original Lingo, as well as always starting the deck on either speed without a 'push'(!!), also started it and brought it up to speed much quicker on both speeds than the Hercules could.
  12. mjroe

    mjroe pfm Member

    Too true - I'd forgotten that!
  13. 1964meb

    1964meb pfm Member

    I have not had this issue at all with my herculese 2. The bloke ( maker) I bought I from was a star. I phoned him and he sent me fitting instructions etc. He ev ent me an oil saving cap for the bearing to help fitting the unit.

    Phone the guy and talk to him. He will sort it. I'm sure.

  14. colasblue

    colasblue pfm Member

    If the phase cap is working properly then the motor should have plenty of torque at start up. If you don't get that (at either speed) then it might be broke.

    I always thought that most LP12 PSU's could only start at 33 and then move to 45 when up to speed through a clock change. Maybe if you do that too quickly it can get into a mess and end up at half of 45 with no torque through a harmonic resonance??

    is 22.5 what you get?

    Linn were well aware of the 45 mod to the Valhalla circuit but for some reason never actually released it, so perhaps there's an issue.
  15. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    It sounded better playing 45s by taking the outer platter and belt off to put the ring piece on the motor spindle, belt and outter platter then finally the mat back on again, by which time the phone would go or someone would come to the front door and before you knew it it was time to get to bed.
    lazycat likes this.
  16. suzywong

    suzywong Wot, no electrons?

    Just played with mine (ooh er, missus). Lingo 1: click and it starts at 33. press & hold and it starts at 33, then at some point speeds up to 45.

    Curiously the original 45 adaptor never worked with the Valhalla fitted. It just would not spin up at all, even with a kick-start. Fortunately we had only a couple of '45's, which therefore remained un-played for over two decades until I got the Lingo 1.
  17. allthingsanalog

    allthingsanalog pfm Member

    My Hercules made the motor hum at 45, and a failed blue led. I then changed to the Gold Mose upgrade which had a dodgy power switch and also a failed gold fuse right from the word go. Also dry solder joints on the small pcb that fitted inside the turntable.

    After upgrading to a Lingo all the problems vanished.
  18. wiresandmore

    wiresandmore pfm Member

    Slightly OT I know but reading this thread reminded me of the problems I had when my PT TOO would start to play backwards. Great for checking for satanic messages, not so great for normal music!
    Tim Danaher and TheDecameron like this.
  19. Cihangir m Akyol

    Cihangir m Akyol New Member

    Has anyone noticed the excessive heating of the 2 x 15k power resistors on the Hercules board (like they did on the Valhalla) ?
    This was the Achilles heel of the Valhalla which eventually destroyed the copper tracks on the pcb.
    Since the Hercules high voltage stage 'looks' very similar to that of the Valhalla, I was wondering if it also suffers
    from the same symptoms.

    Also, I have a 60hz pulley (USA). So I am thinking of changing the 45rpm xtal to 3.9Mhz so I can generate 33.3 rpm at 60Hz,
    since I do not listen to 45 rpm vinyl.

    I will also change the output phase splitter capacitor to 0.18uF as recommended by the motor maufacturer. Has anyone already
    attempted this and had any experiences ?

  20. Pine Marten

    Pine Marten pfm Member

    I've always given my LP12 platter a "kick start". Having had an early 80's "basic" motor drive from new, then a valhalla and for the last couple of years a Mose outboard Herc. It's had a recent motor fitted s/h but low miles and quite recent, probably from someone who has gone DC? Only recently have I needed to use 45, as a new album that I bought online failed to mention it was cut over 4 sides at 45rpm! Start at 33, little kick start, then another push of the button to 45. I've always hated the creaking and groaning on all versions of motor drive, so why not give the motor and belt an easier life by giving the platter a little shove?

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