Hearing the record with volume/amp off.

[Whaleblue]

No scorn on my part, just a feeling that this is easily explained and an inevitable feature of a mechanical device.

Nothing wrong with a little humour, and I'm guilty of the odd bit of mockery myself.

Just thought this was an interesting question, and given the massive differences between the amount of needletalk I've experienced in different setups, wondered if it was a significant pointer to issues?

 

[AndrewM]

Why the scorn on a thread about something of possible actual technical interest and learning, where USB cable threads attract heated debate for dozens of pages??

Yes, I know I'm repeating a point already made.

Acquit me of that at least, I don't get involved in cable threads often if I can help it! Far too dangerous. Seriously, sound from the stylus must be invitable, vibrate anything mechanical in free air at an audible frequency and you get sound. How much you get I suspect depends how well damped the the various components are - stylus assembly, headshell, arm etc (and of course the record, mat and platter - Newtons 3rd law). But heavier damping has its own compromises - for instance increasing the arm/headshell mass can increase friction and and compromise tracking). I suspect simply trying to reduce the volume of the sound isn't ncessarily going to correlate with improving the setup generally.

Andrew

 

[Darth Vader]

Newtons Third law: When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body (1687).

Cheers,

DV

 

[Whaleblue]

Newtons Third law: When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body (1687).

Cheers,

DV

And at the speed of light we get older more slowly (relatively).

Which sheds equally little light on the original question, does it??

 

[Mescalito]

And at the speed of light we get older more slowly (relatively).

Which sheds equally little light on the original question, does it??

In some ways it does.

If Newtond 3rd law dictates that the vinyl record has a small copy of the signal inserted into it, the phsical properties of the vinyl dictate that this signal will decay in a short but finite time. Also it is entirely feasible that this vinyl born energy will undergo boundary reflection. Both of these phenomena will then be pcked up by the very sensitive motion detector that is a pick up cartridge.

So yet another distortion that is intrinsic to the vinyl playback system.

Chris

 

[Robert]

The noise - 'needletalk' as mentioned above is mostly produced by the sound of the various parts resonating. Parts within the cartridge, arm and of course the vinyl itself. Some sound is produced by the cantilever directly driving the air, as in a loudspeaker, but the distorted and often hollow 'ringy' noise is resonance. It can tell you a good deal about the sonic signature of a vinyl front end.

Bits of the TT can also resonate and contribute to needletlak, and again the nature of this noise can tell you something about the sound of a TT.
Vinyl front ends are flavoured by lots of stored energy within the loop. Needletalk is in some way 'waste' energy - the energy not directly transferred into the electrical signal from the cartridge.

 

[MikeMA]

I will normally play a side of the LP with the volume down to warm up the cartridge and was just doing that with my plum label copy of Zep 3 and am able to hear the songs very clearly through the cart itself.

I would assume that sound through the table/cart is a form of loss and you would really want all the energy to be transferred from groove to coil and not lost as external vibrations??

Obviously this is how gramophones used to work with a horn to amplify but is this a good thing on a modern TT?

A degree of needletalk is inevitable, unless you can change the laws of physics.

 

[yuckyamson]

Deepest apologies, I'll also start a USB cable thread so you can have one of your usual petty "bits is bits" arguments.

First of all, Dude....His Dudeness...El Duderino, cause I'm not into the whole, you know, Brevity thing....

I'm not saying that there is no needle-talk. Sure there is. But there's nothing you can do about it (apart from moving the table into a different room, something I have tinkered with because it effectively removes the hi-fi-feedback from the loop of the table playing) , but more to the point....who HASN'T hear their needle playing making sound??

 

[mmaatt]

First of all, Dude....His Dudeness...El Duderino, cause I'm not into the whole, you know, Brevity thing....

I'm not saying that there is no needle-talk. Sure there is. But there's nothing you can do about it (apart from moving the table into a different room, something I have tinkered with because it effectively removes the hi-fi-feedback from the loop of the table playing) , but more to the point....who HASN'T hear their needle playing making sound??

You'd have to move your TT a bit further than that to get rid of needletalk; try the moon, 1st stable rock with a vacuum.

mat

 

[Whaleblue]

It's the amount of needle talk, and whether more is a sign of something bad that was the root of the original question I believe.

 

[Robert]

It's the amount of needle talk, and whether more is a sign of something bad that was the root of the original question I believe.

Yes precisely, and it differs substantially in both level and composition between different front ends. As such it presents a clue as to what's happening within the vinyl front end's energy path loop, and that impacts sonics.

 

[yuckyamson]

You'd have to move your TT a bit further than that to get rid of needletalk; try the moon, 1st stable rock with a vacuum.

mat

No S. S. (I'll let you figure out which S refers to "sherlock" and which refers to....)

I was saying in terms of eliminating the feedback, not the needletalk, which is (as I wrote) unavoidable.

 

[yuckyamson]

Wait how in the sam hill did I get sucked into this? I couldn't believe this was a thread in the first place.