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Have amplifiers finished evolving?

Tim F

pfm Member
Been thinking about the technological innovation of amplifiers - it's clear that digital has been evolving at a rapid rate, but what about amps? For those of you keeping up are the latest and greatest a lot better than the older models?

I heard Pass Labs X1000 monos years back and I'm still impressed with them (at reference level). I get that things can sound different but do they sound better?

Cheers, Tim
 
If I'd like to upgrade from my Manley Stingray, I could get a Jumbo Shrimp preamp and a pair of Mahi mono blocks. It's an evolution of sorts — from a cartilaginous fish to a decapod crustacean and two bony fish.

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Joe
 
Good sounding, effortlessly powerful, cheap as chips (OEM prices) fully balanced Class D amps are a market revolution. The fact that “hi end” manufacturers have started plonking them into sculpted cnc cut aluminium vaults for sale instead of their in house steam engines shows the way this heading.
 
There's not been much true innovation in years and there's little to come now. What's left is mainly in further rediscovering of old topologies for audio uses and applying new components to old topologies. In some respects we're going backwards as many of the best ever parts for audio are no longer available and unlikely to be replaced by any equivalent, mainly as analogue equipment is replaced by digital for mass market consumer gear and it becomes unprofitable for manufacturers to continue making small quantities of parts.

The very conservative nature of audiophiles is in itself a problem in making any forward progress... commercially gear has to be made to satisfy what audiophiles believe they want rather than what they need! EG? many think they need much more power than they actually do which makes class A unpractical. Hybrid valve/SS can give superb results but some think "only valves can do XYZ" or "only transistors"... Many think only linear PSU's can sound good which can then mean doubling or tripling the price to assuage customer concerns over SMPSU's. "Fads" rule (remember when TID and slew induced distortion were the in things? or some expensive Jap and USA amps had graphic EQ?) and in a world where to the average customer what goes on behind the front panel is "here be dragons" rumours and Chinese whispers abound and sound technical advice and/or real progress is often actually shunned... People are persuaded by "capacitors wound with silver foil and bamboo dielectric" bollox but not by "improved linearity and open loop gain results in only 0.001% THD".
A literally perfect amplifier which adds nothing and takes nothing away and just amplifies the input is what we should surely be aiming for but many would shun such a thing for something with "a nice tone":eek:

Ultimately people tend to buy based on brand name and aesthetics followed by perceived resale value and "kudos" over owning a certain brand (the "I've got a Ferrari" effect:rolleyes:) with SQ coming further down the list than many will admit...

So yes there is a few small improvements to come here and there through different juxtapositions of known circuitry but nothing seismic and it will probably be ignored in favour of "uses genuine NOS 50's capacitors which have been treated in hand milked snake oil" etc... Cynical? Moi?:rolleyes:
 
Been thinking about the technological innovation of amplifiers - it's clear that digital has been evolving at a rapid rate, but what about amps? For those of you keeping up are the latest and greatest a lot better than the older models?

A lot of digital amp specification is downright misleading/disingenuous from what I can see, especially at the more affordable end, e.g. the rated output tends to be at an odd impedance and the distortion nowhere near what would have been acceptable even in the 1950s. The well liked Tripath chips being prime examples, e.g. the TA2020 seems to routinely be sold as a “20 Watt amp”, yet is actually spewing out 10% distortion at 12 Watts into 8 Ohms (datasheet). For comparison my wonderful sounding 1961 Leak valve amp can deliver its full rated power (10 Watts) at 0.1% THD.

I have a little Amptastic Mini-1 T-Amp and it is a very nice little amp for the money. I use it to drive the huge great Klipsch La Scalas in my TV room. I only need a couple of Watts, a 2 Watt SET can drive these speakers to literally deafening levels, so it is running clean here and sounds fine. I’d still take a nice class AB or class A amp over it, e.g. it doesn’t worry a 50 year Quad 303 that much.

I spent a couple of days recently staying in That London with a friend who has just bought a pair of active Kef LS50s, which have a digital amp on the bass-mid unit. They are rather good, I liked them a lot, so I’m not opposed to the technology, I just feel in many cases it is not being sold very honestly and I am certain *a lot* of kit is being advertised as being far more powerful or lower distortion than it actually is.

Anyway, I’d like to hear a genuinely high-end digital amp put up against a very good class A amp (tube or solid state). Are there any that could worry a big class A Krell, Conrad Johnson, Mark Levinson or whatever?
 
I get class D but wasn't really focussing my question on this.

Which older power amps do you see as reference class when you heard them (outside of £100k Audionote wonders)?
 
Which older power amps do you see as reference class when you heard them (outside of £100k Audionote wonders)?

It is very easy to make a case for a large number of vintage valve amps, Leak, Quad, Mcintosh, Beam Echo, Radford etc. Amps designed by the great audio pioneers at a time where people still knew how to wind high quality transformers, could afford to manufacture high quality chassis and bespoke parts etc due to the large numbers being made. Similarly something like the original Sugden A51 class A power amp can show most modern solid state amps a trick or two. To my mind the best amps are either valve, class A, or both, and this is all very long established tried and tested technology. The only thing that has really changed is you now get dazzlingly bright blue LEDs on the front and children get to make them in China. I’d personally take a well restored pair of late-1940s TL12.1s over any of it!
 
I get class D but wasn't really focussing my question on this.

Which older power amps do you see as reference class when you heard them (outside of £100k Audionote wonders)?
Krell.
Crown.
Carver/ Phase Linear.
off the top of my head. All American, interesting ly.
 
Simple answer is yes, analog amplifiers have come full circle a few times now. Class D just can't do the same, I've tried and owned them both and i always come back to Class A/B.
DACs which which use well implemented BB 1794 1792 chips are also pretty timeless IMHO.
 
I think that Class AB was held back for a while by the semiconductors available. The good old 2N3055 et al just didn't have the gain available, hence things like the Quad 303 that needed Darlington triples. However since then decent power amp tranies ahve been developed, along with PNP versions of same, so you ca now have complementary pairs, and I think the work has now been done. Whether integrated circuits can match this remains to be seen, including Class D options. I'd say yes, but I don't think that there is enough money in hifi amplification any more to make it worthwhile. So maybe there is still stuff out there, but my guess is that if there is more then nobody is prepared to pay for the work. As someone else said, we are into flavours and badges to make the diference fro those prepared to spend the money.
 
If I'd like to upgrade from my Manley Stingray, I could get a Jumbo Shrimp preamp and a pair of Mahi mono blocks. It's an evolution of sorts — from a cartilaginous fish to a decapod crustacean and two bony fish.

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Joe

ah not for the heatwave conditions we will be getting in future?
 
Joe's in Canada. Between November and March he needs all the heat he can get. After that he can afford to mothball the valves and put a chipamp in, if he wants to save the planet.
 


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