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Hard to find a balance in speakers

M

Martin 52

pfm Member
Is it just me or do other people find it hard to find the perfect speaker. Even when spending £4000 which to me is a lot of money. Currently trying spendor a7 some music sounds fantastic with my marantz model 30, rega p8 , or streaming through my node and chord DAC.
One minute you think that sounds amazing then you put something else on and the bass is terrible or it's hurting your ears . Anyone with any advice or are my ears just getting old
 
Martin 52 said:
Is it just me or do other people find it hard to find the perfect speaker. Even when spending £4000 which to me is a lot of money. Currently trying spendor a7 some music sounds fantastic with my marantz model 30, rega p8 , or streaming through my node and chord DAC.
One minute you think that sounds amazing then you put something else on and the bass is terrible or it's hurting your ears . Anyone with any advice or are my ears just getting old
Click to expand...

You are not alone.

IMHO, all loudspeaker designs are compromised - well at least based upon today's technology.

You pick your compromise, which is typically limited frequency extension - tops or more commonly bottoms - limited dynamics, poor driver integration, or requiring a gazillion watts to drive them!

With all of this in mind, I recommend that you try to sample a loudspeaker with no crossover - or at least a loudspeaker with a very simple first-order crossover.

A crossover-less loudspeaker design will typically have just one driver. The likes of the OMEGA brand are a good example. (Below)
CAM_Natural_walnut_3-0223_1024x1024.jpg


A simple first-order crossover can be found in loudspeakers like the REF 3A de Capo. (Below)

IMG_0065_tn.thumb.jpg.95fff1951dfc8cd4b383fbc2f137c715.jpg



These time-proven designs seem to have a certain inherent rightness to the sound - even at very low volumes - which is a trick that too many new loudspeaker designs seems to miss.

As always, YMMV. ;)
 
I had the same issue, until I found the combination of RFC Rubato speakers and changing the Bluesound to an Auralic Aeries S1- massive difference, but in your case, there might just one component that will swing it in your favour. Presumably you still get annoyed even by your Rega p8, which would imply the source side is not so much the issue. Alas, finding that perfect balance is often a case of trial and error.
 
Here is your solution:
www.schiit-europe.com

Loki Max - REMOTE CONTROL, PURE LC, RELAY POTENTIOMETER, FULLY DISCRETE NEXUS™ EQ - Schiit Europe

REMOTE CONTROL, PURE LC, RELAY POTENTIOMETER, FULLY DISCRETE NEXUS™ EQ Yes, remote control. As in, you can adjust the frequency response of your system from your listening chair—and save presets. And this thing is as crazy as you can get—relay potentiometers for precision matching between...
www.schiit-europe.com www.schiit-europe.com

The fully passive filtering of this device is reported to be 100% transparent, in contrast to most available EQ solutions.

IMHO there is hardly a chance of getting a system's sound right without EQ. If you can DSP in Roon or such, you can get comparable benefit for free, although not as transparently.
 
Martin 52 said:
Is it just me or do other people find it hard to find the perfect speaker. Even when spending £4000 which to me is a lot of money. Currently trying spendor a7 some music sounds fantastic with my marantz model 30, rega p8 , or streaming through my node and chord DAC.
One minute you think that sounds amazing then you put something else on and the bass is terrible or it's hurting your ears . Anyone with any advice or are my ears just getting old
Click to expand...
The answer is simple but tough. You have got to get rid of the urge to critique all the time, learn to relax and just enjoy the music. A gin and tonic or glass of whisky may help you to lose the heat so to speak.

Fora is full of sad chaps who keep looking for a non existent nirvana. Your system is almost certainly better than 99% of those on the planet, so do the right thing and just listen to the music.
 
Mick P said:
The answer is simple but tough. You have got to get rid of the urge to critique all the time, learn to relax and just enjoy the music. A gin and tonic or glass of whisky may help you to lose the heat so to speak.
Click to expand...
Absolutely the best advice. I have had 6 pairs of speakers in 50 years and each pair has had it's pros and cons whether it be bass / high end or imaging etc.

FWIW, I ended up with Spendor A7's too and am very pleased with them and it would now have to be a lottery win or a raid on the pension pot to go higher end in the speaker chain.
 
it's as much about room acoustics and system synergy as just the speakers themselves, fwiw I had A7's for a while but found them a bit tiresome after a while. Home demo and trial and error is the way.
 
It's impossible for a speaker to sound wonderful with all material.
The best will simply deliver what is on the software, without compromise, but that will mean that poor recordings sound exactly what they are.
Many people will choose a warmer sound, understandably, because they want as many of their recordings to sound listenable as possible.
Some will begin only to play excellent sounding material and are willing to compromise their music for their sound.
You can only choose what suits you, understanding that it always a compromise - either the speaker, or yourself.
 
I've been down this rabbit hole. Random lessons along the way...

1. Room modes, unless you're blessed with a naturally perfect room you're not going to get decent bass unless you have suitable bass traps or use DSP (I went the latter below 125hz only, game changer)

2. Room echo. Too damped and speakers might sound lifeless, too reverberant can sound cluttered and headache inducing. For me broadband’ish panels on ceiling and sidewall first reflections cleaned up the sound a heck of a lot

3. The right gear with right synergy as discussed ad infinitum on here. What's right is hugely subjective and dependent on too many variables.

N=1: Right for me was being able to play any music, any recording quality, at any vol level and feel satisfied and non-fatigued. After doing the rounds with way too many speakers (and several amps) it came down to a speaker that largely measured flat, didn't skimp detail yet had enough smoothness to tolerate crappy recordings. Too forgiving/sleepy and speakers they often lose enough bite for rock, too much bass drowns out detail, too much presence range makes bad recordings sound intolerable etc. But if you like one style of music then you may want a set up that excels with that rather than a jack of all trades which is my goal. My current set up, and with those couple of room fixes, is one I can listen to endlessly and at a good volume. Prior to that, one album and my ears would be done. It is possible to get there.

It's such a loaded topic. But unless you know what your room is doing you might be fighting a losing battle. I've also found it useful to understand speaker measurements, this way you can better understand what your ears do/don't like
 
I've had great difficulty in choosing loudspeakers now and in the past. There are no HIFI dealers in my area, not been any for about 20 years! So I have to rely on word of mouth! It would be lovely to walk into a dealer and have a listen to something I have in mind.

I know I have Richer Sounds, but they aren't a specialised HIFI dealer as I use to visit in the past. And not having a car doesn't help matters.

Sorry for going off topic!
 
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And I'll just add that I have just experienced precisely the problem @Martin 52 alluded to with this recording - the Beethoven op 111 - which sounded uninteresting on my AE1s but engaging and refined with my ESLs - it's a question of timbre, detail of timbre and resonance I think.

https://arbiterrecords.org/catalog/iren-marik-from-bach-to-bartok/

I suspect there really is no solution, and it's one reason why so many of us here have many alternative pieces of equipment. Maybe the other solution is not to care!
 
Any keen eyed members would have noticed my ever-changing avatar over the last couple of months as i've been agonising over my choice of my next speakers. The most difficult factor which most people here could relate to was sticking to a finite budget so that I could afford my other planned upgrades. And I can confidentally say i've now arrived at my final choice of speakers - the Qualio IQ Ultra's. The Ultra spec has several important upgrades which are listed on their site. Basically they are the right speakers for my room, tastes, budget, and for synergy with the rest of my system vis a vis my planned upgrades.

That process was helped by the fact that the Designer/Rep Grzegorz posted high fidelity 4K videos online recorded with a custom Vlogging rig using dual Schoeps microphones. Otherwise I would have been shooting blind, not having the opportunity to audition the speakers. Anyway, there is no easy solution to finding the the right balance with speakers other than lots of research and auditioning (where possible). But a sure sign you've found the right speakers is that they put a smile on your face even before you've taken delivery.

 
Nice ..certainly were impressive when i heard them
One reason i like tannoy is you can adjust them to your room ..helps a lot in finding balance
 
Easiest way out is active speakers with dsp. I use active speakers and a separate dsp and use REW software and a umik-1 microphone.

Treating the room if possible is ideal, but it can end up either looking terrible, or expensive. Gik do panels that they can print any image onto.
 
Amplifier/ speaker combination should work fine, looks like a quality combo and clearly does since some music sounds amazing. So, not to over-engineer: look at the input. C**p in is C**p out. Can be poor recording and with the P8, poor pressing or not so good phono setting.
 
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