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Guitar talk: acoustic, bass, classical, twelve string? You name it! Pt III

I jammed with a pro once, watching his right hand for the chord changes, and he foxed me with the way he played A-major (at the second fret) he was placing his index finger behind the other two in order to fit all three fingers at the second fret (kind of like a D-7 shape). Took me a while to work out what he was doing. And the way B-major was shown in all my guitar books was and remains impossible for me. I just power chord it now.

Although I was made to study piano and do the theory exams as a kid, I never really bothered looking much into guitar theory. Started to get into it a little more recently, and was genuinely surprised to see that full six-string chord patterns aren't actually obligatory - or even in many cases desirable.

Especially true apparently when accompanying musicians on other instruments - like the bass guitar for example, where dropping the lower range notes leaves more space for the bass, and helps the whole mix sound cleaner. I had kind of picked up before on the fact that full chords can muddy the sound before, and was one of the reasons why I always preferred the Tele and Strat single pickups sounds, to yer Les Paul hum-bucker, but thought the 'correct' way to fix that was through changing pickups and tone settings or indeed the guitar rather than use simpler triads or partial chords on the upper strings.

Who'da thunk :)
 
Ed Sheeran did his best to ruin their rep but doesn't Richard Thompson still play them so they must be pretty fine?

Thompson's acoustic tone has been pretty terrible for decades, it only sounds good because it's RT playing it. I blame the Sunrise soundhole pickup he uses, which doesn't really sound very "acoustic" at all. I wish he'd go back to the Martin 000-18 he used in the 70s.
 
This discussion made me think of Django Reinhardt, who had only two functioning fingers on his fretting hand, and led me to this fantastic movie clip which clearly shows his technique. He had that knack of never looking or sounding hurried - the guitar equivalent of Viv Richards or Roger Federer.
 
Ed Sheeran did his best to ruin their rep but doesn't Richard Thompson still play them so they must be pretty fine?
Paul Brady too, I think.
There is a very fine early cedar topped one in the hands of an excellent player locally. It's one of the nicest guitars I've played. But as I wrote upthread, I found them a bit meh when I went on a guitar shop splurge in Edinburgh before Christmas.
 
Maybe I just have pointy fingers. Upon further investigation, It's mainly the right index finger that gives me problems. And only on certain chords (as you said) e.g. C-major in the usual 1st position; hard to avoid the index finger on the C note (1st fret on B-string) from damping the open high E-string.

Your probably right about developing your own style. I jammed with a pro once, watching his right hand for the chord changes, and he foxed me with the way he played A-major (at the second fret) he was placing his index finger behind the other two in order to fit all three fingers at the second fret (kind of like a D-7 shape). Took me a while to work out what he was doing. And the way B-major was shown in all my guitar books was and remains impossible for me. I just power chord it now.
An A shape I like, which is the opposite of being jammed up is using a mini barre at the second fret across the D , G (and B and E, though it doesn't matter), then fretting the B and top E string at the 5th fret just with the little finger across both. Nice empty modal chord (EAEAEA) without a third, good for drones in a way a simple power chord doesn't manage.
 
Ed Sheeran did his best to ruin their rep but doesn't Richard Thompson still play them so they must be pretty fine?

This one [the Lowden] is an early one from the original N.I. workshop. Fully acoustic as built. It sounds very good to me, but I'm no expert. Wife fitted a pick up latterly for gigs ("Fishman"?) which made it a wee bit heavier and less resonant, in my ignorant view. Always played unplugged these days.

I'm not a fan of the twangy "piezo" sound of many electro acoustic guitars. Can sound kind of synthesised and rubbery? But I can see why it is popular. It is distinctive and might mask mechanical noise? I don't know.
 
This discussion made me think of Django Reinhardt, who had only two functioning fingers on his fretting hand, and led me to this fantastic movie clip which clearly shows his technique. He had that knack of never looking or sounding hurried - the guitar equivalent of Viv Richards or Roger Federer.

That's a lovely clip. Love the way it casually showcases a true supergroup. I had no idea Django only had two working fingers on his left hand, amazing. Just shows that workarounds are possible for almost everything with enough commitment.
And my favourite bass player James Jamerson only ever used two plucking fingers to brilliant effect.
 
Paul Brady too, I think.
There is a very fine early cedar topped one in the hands of an excellent player locally. It's one of the nicest guitars I've played. But as I wrote upthread, I found them a bit meh when I went on a guitar shop splurge in Edinburgh before Christmas.

DarrenW has/had a Lowden, a fairly old one I think. A truly fabulous sounding thing, just so ‘alive’ and resonant, though the action was very, very high (to the extent I couldn’t really play it). I brought it back a bit with a gentle truss rod adjustment, but I suspect it wasn’t many years off needing a neck reset. That said many pro-level acoustic players do like a very high action and a bit of a fight. Just look at some ancient blues players, I suspect some country and folk too etc. I’d love to see say Bert Jansch or John Renbourn’s guitars. I doubt it is possible to get the dynamics of say that ‘Bert & John’ album from a low action. There is no ‘right’, but some very good guitars may not be right for beginners.

My own steel strung acoustic, a 25 year old cheap Epiphone, is arguably too far the other way in that it feels like an electric with a thin narrow neck and very low action. That one would be a great starter guitar, though for me the string-spacing is a bit closer than I’d like. I’ve come to the conclusion that on any guitar I like a wide chunky neck, wide string-spacing and low/medium action. For noodling around on I absolutely love my ancient Yamaha classical with it’s huge wide and flat neck. If I ever custom-spec’d a new electric (I’m kind of tempted to order another Gordon Smith with a P90) I’d go for the chunkiest neck they knew how to make!

PS Same on basses, I’m still trying to sell the 76 AVRI Jazz Bass as whilst the neck really is a thing of beauty it is *way* too narrow for me.
 
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This one [the Lowden] is an early one from the original N.I. workshop. Fully acoustic as built. It sounds very good to me, but I'm no expert. Wife fitted a pick up latterly for gigs ("Fishman"?) which made it a wee bit heavier and less resonant, in my ignorant view. Always played unplugged these days.

I'm not a fan of the twangy "piezo" sound of many electro acoustic guitars. Can sound kind of synthesised and rubbery? But I can see why it is popular. It is distinctive and might mask mechanical noise? I don't know.
The L R Baggs M1 soundhole pickup was what I ended up with. It's some clever electromagnetic pickup that picks up body resonance as well, not a piezo, and has no piezo quack and still sounds like my guitar through a P A.
 
DarrenW has/had a Lowden, a fairly old one I think. A truly fabulous sounding thing, just so ‘alive’ and resonant, though the action was very, very high (to the extent I couldn’t really play it). I brought it back a bit with a gentle truss rod adjustment, but I suspect it wasn’t many years off needing a neck reset. That said many pro-level acoustic players do like a very high action and a bit of a fight. Just look at some ancient blues players, I suspect some country and folk too etc. I’d love to see say Bert Jansch or John Renbourn’s guitars. I doubt it is possible to get the dynamics of say that ‘Bert & John’ album from a low action. There is no ‘right’, but some very good guitars may not be right for beginners.

My own steel strung acoustic, a 25 year old cheap Epiphone, is arguably too far the other way in that it feels like an electric with a thin narrow neck and very low action. That one would be a great starter guitar, though for me the string-spacing is a bit closer than I’d like. I’ve come to the conclusion that on any guitar I like a wide chunky neck, wide string-spacing and low/medium action. For noodling around on I absolutely love my ancient Yamaha classical with it’s huge wide and flat neck. If I ever custom-spec’d a new electric (I’m kind of tempted to order another Gordon Smith with a P90) I’d go for the chunkiest neck they knew how to make!

PS Same on basses, I’m still trying to sell the 76 AVRI Jazz Bass as whilst the neck really is a thing of beauty it is *way* too narrow for me.
I believe Jansch played a Yamaha.
From the amount of pop he got I don't think he used the highest action. Don't think his strings were the freshest, either, at least on his early LPs.
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
Justin Hawkins is a Great Bunch of Lads and he's finally got around to Ichika.


He's also got a Rick Beato interview coming up.

 
Your probably right about developing your own style. I jammed with a pro once, watching his right hand for the chord changes, and he foxed me with the way he played A-major (at the second fret) he was placing his index finger behind the other two in order to fit all three fingers
This makes rapid changes between A, D and E faster and smoother as the first finger just slides from feet to feet without lifting off
 
This is a great lesson from Paul Davids and Ariel Posen. A huge amount of stuff in there and just at right level to (literally) stretch my playing in challenging but cool ways. Just getting those 4 triad / chord voicings at the start properly fretted and sounding clean are weeks of useful progress for me.

 

Recently bought a set to try. Was staying at my daughter's house/cat sitting and had decided against taking a guitar, regretted within a day. Spotted a Westfield acoustic for £30 in a charity shop window, played a bit resistant (nut needs cutting a bit) but intonation fine. Doesn't sound great compared to my usual but ok for the job. These have a bit of a reputation for a neck that's not too strong so perhaps these strings with less tension might be good. It's certainly seen some use so should be fine as a stop-gap.
 


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