Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
"When I am king they will be first against the wall"
Guitar talk: acoustic, bass, classical, twelve string? You name it! Pt III
- Thread starter Seeker_UK
- Start date
"When I am king they will be first against the wall"
-alan-
pfm Member
Yes, I've always found that Normans stockpiling / corner the market and then and drip-feed whilst creating the punters appalling. Advertising it shamelessly on their promotional videos is even worse.
Actually anytime Norman releases yet another video of an extremely rare / once off /hitherto unknown Fender/Gibson/Whatever it reminds me of the famous Not the 9 o'clock News Ming Vase auction sketch
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Those guitars just wouldn't exist if they had been gigged by the stars of the day or (more likely) mopped up by the Japanese dealers over the years - you can argue it both ways round. It's not as though they're ten a penny anywhere...
Tony L
Administrator
I don’t know the story behind Norman’s Guitars, but I can’t help but respect anyone predicting a market to such an extent they managed to buy-in so much simply amazing stuff at the right time, let alone be able to afford to keep it long-term until it matured. Where did the initial money come from? That stuff has never been cheap, even when it was brand new! If I was a good bit brighter than I am I’d have a few mint, boxed 301s, TD-124s, LS3/5As etc stacked up in the spare bedroom.
PS Most dealers keep the best stuff as long as they can as most are collectors themselves, e.g. the most valuable records in my house are certainly in my own collection, not the shop!
PS Most dealers keep the best stuff as long as they can as most are collectors themselves, e.g. the most valuable records in my house are certainly in my own collection, not the shop!
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
I've been enjoying Trevor Wong's lessons. His channel is jam packed with awesome chord voicings if you like the mid-west emo/math rock/post rock school of guitar for jazz-curious indie kids. Although virtually everything requires some kind of alternate tuning.
https://www.youtube.com/c/TrevorWongMusic/videos
Currently have my Jazzmaster in FACGCE which gives you a lovely (I think) FMaj9 and allows you to play the math rock meme riff from "Never Meant":
https://www.youtube.com/c/TrevorWongMusic/videos
Currently have my Jazzmaster in FACGCE which gives you a lovely (I think) FMaj9 and allows you to play the math rock meme riff from "Never Meant":
imarks
Ian Marks
tl:dr How do you monitor the guitars at a gig?
My band is doing it's first gig in November and I'm wondering how to monitor the 2 guitars so that the rhythm section can hear them! In practice it's not a problem as they place their amps in front and turn them to face us. In performance mode they want the amps close behind them facing forward and the drummer and I (bass) just can't hear them properly.
On bass I use a modeling pedal and go straight into the desk without using a combo so it gets fed to the wedges and everyone can hear it. The guitar guys don't want to do this.
We don't have spare mics or mic inputs on the desk so that's not possible without some considerable expense.
Can we use some sort of splitter and feed one output to the guitar amp and the other to the desk. I guess we'd get 'dry' guitar sound in the wedges but better than nothing I guess. Guitar amps don't seem to have a DI output like bass amps often have.
Any suggestions?
Cheers
Ian
My band is doing it's first gig in November and I'm wondering how to monitor the 2 guitars so that the rhythm section can hear them! In practice it's not a problem as they place their amps in front and turn them to face us. In performance mode they want the amps close behind them facing forward and the drummer and I (bass) just can't hear them properly.
On bass I use a modeling pedal and go straight into the desk without using a combo so it gets fed to the wedges and everyone can hear it. The guitar guys don't want to do this.
We don't have spare mics or mic inputs on the desk so that's not possible without some considerable expense.
Can we use some sort of splitter and feed one output to the guitar amp and the other to the desk. I guess we'd get 'dry' guitar sound in the wedges but better than nothing I guess. Guitar amps don't seem to have a DI output like bass amps often have.
Any suggestions?
Cheers
Ian
Tony L
Administrator
Depends entirely on the gig! If it’s a tiny pub gig then it is all on you to set your amps up so you can hear them as well as the audience. Proper music venues should have monitoring, i.e. wedge shaped loudspeakers on the floor in front of you. If you are very nice to the sound engineer there is a vague chance these will give you some idea of what is happening.
I’m sure a lot has changed since my day, e.g. I have no concept of quiet stages, in ear monitors etc. It just didn’t exist back then. If you are playing in the traditional amps on stage way be prepared for what can be a very disorienting experience. I’ve played many venues where I really couldn’t hear what was going on, or more importantly when it was going on. You can end up with a real delay between the stage and front of house sound due to acoustics etc that is really hard to deal with. I always used a very long bass lead so I could wander around until I found a place where I could hear what the rest of the band were doing. I didn’t care if I could hear myself, it is far more important to ensure the drums you are hearing are real, not an echo etc. I’ve even ended up watching the kick drum skin as I couldn’t hear it!
Obviously the worst gigs are the multi-band ones; festivals, showcases etc where you end up in the middle of the running order and likely without a soundcheck. That’s always going to be a mess. By saying that I get the impression things are way more professional now and venue sound engineers actually know what they are doing, plus PA kit has improved hugely. Good luck!
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
In 35 years of playing bass in live shows I have never had a problem hearing a guitarist even when on the opposite end of the stage. The guitar cabs give out plenty of volume from the rear as well. Unless you have the quietist guitarists in the world, I suspect you will not have much of an issue.
One possible suggestion is the Brian May setup of sideways facing guitar cabs. You don’t need the volume for the FOH as they will be mic’d up facing inwards to the centre of the stage might satisfy everyone. Although I suspect in the excitement of live volumes, you will not have an issue.
One possible suggestion is the Brian May setup of sideways facing guitar cabs. You don’t need the volume for the FOH as they will be mic’d up facing inwards to the centre of the stage might satisfy everyone. Although I suspect in the excitement of live volumes, you will not have an issue.
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
Oh, and everything Tony said is spot on. I did a festival last weekend and we were mid bill and the first number was the sound check, always choose something simple for the first song to give the sound engineer a chance, leave your definitive version of “larks tongues in aspic” for the end of the set once he has his eye/ear in.
imarks
Ian Marks
Thanks for the replies, lots of useful info.
It's a small gig, no more than 50 people in a sports club function room and we are the only band. There is no sound engineer! It'll be me reluctantly doing that job! We will be using all our own PA kit which includes a pair of 15" powered speakers for FOH, 4, 10" wedges and a small mixer. The guitarist are using combo amps.
I'd like to get the guitars into the mixer as well as the bass/vocals but the guitar amps have no line outputs and the mixer has no spare mic inputs (and we don't have spare mics either!)
On bass I can usually hear the guitars but the drummer can't and he gets lost sometimes (often) when he misses ques that come from the guitar parts.
I was expecting it to be harder to hear when the room is full of people.
Hmmm
--Ian
It's a small gig, no more than 50 people in a sports club function room and we are the only band. There is no sound engineer! It'll be me reluctantly doing that job! We will be using all our own PA kit which includes a pair of 15" powered speakers for FOH, 4, 10" wedges and a small mixer. The guitarist are using combo amps.
I'd like to get the guitars into the mixer as well as the bass/vocals but the guitar amps have no line outputs and the mixer has no spare mic inputs (and we don't have spare mics either!)
On bass I can usually hear the guitars but the drummer can't and he gets lost sometimes (often) when he misses ques that come from the guitar parts.
I was expecting it to be harder to hear when the room is full of people.
Hmmm
--Ian
Tony L
Administrator
People eat treble. You would be amazed how much less HF exists in a full room compared with an empty one.
PS Don’t discount hiring better amps for backline from the local rehearsal room or wherever if you are used to just using digital emulation etc. I’d not want to just play straight into a mixing desk and rely on monitors myself, certainly not for my first gig. You really are at the mercy of the engineers without proper backline.
Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
...IF the venue or promoters are willing to spend the money.
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
In that case I would put all the back line behind the drummer the guitarists will have to suffer not being right next to their cabs. Not having them in the mix is not ideal. You can get away with Bass and drums not being in the mix but guitars, keys and Vox are pretty essential. Maybe being in a smaller venue will work but you will need to control volume strictly.