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Grenfell: inquest or public inquiry?

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Seanm, Jun 16, 2017.

  1. Enfield boy

    Enfield boy pfm Member

    Meanwhile, at the enquiry, contractors have asked for a no prosecution guarantee before they agree to give evidence.
  2. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Guilty is as guilty does. Immunity from prosecution is farcical in this context. 72 people were burned to death and prosecution for manslaughter is the very least their relatives should expect.
  3. PhilofCas

    PhilofCas pfm Member

    I think they’re all much of a muchness (PIR boards) regarding fire, i.e. they're insulation first and foremost.
  4. mikemusic

    mikemusic pfm Member

    Grenfell puts a sobering perspective on having it in my house
    The back of it is exposed in the crawl space in the loft we extended into.
    Million to one electrical fire catches onto the Cellotex and moi has a bijou problemette.
    The backs of the electrical sockets are nicely flush with the Cellotex.
    Will be having a damned good crawl around up there in the near future. For someone reasonably well built at 6' this is less fun than I'd like.
    Building Regs guy must have passed what he saw so hopefully I'm fairly safe
    jackbarron likes this.
  5. Cav

    Cav pfm Member

    Why would anyone participate in the enquiry if that was the likely outcome?
    Cheese likes this.
  6. PhilofCas

    PhilofCas pfm Member

    I hope so Mike, sounds like you’ve got a good handle on it.
    mikemusic likes this.
  7. martin clark

    martin clark pinko bodger

    It does; 1/2" plasterboard intrinsically gives 30mins of fire protection; there's no source of ignition and so on.

    PIR is an excellent insulant and behaves - for a plastic - pretty darn well in fire ; it decomposes, and is difficult to make support flame. It is not a source of fires. If you want to worry about that, then you'd need to worry more about all the timber in your house (and if its timber-frame, that is protected by plasterboard once the house complete)

    The worst & most likely fire load of all are your possessions: all those books and fabrics and bits of furniture and vinyl records. That, and being careful with open flames / unplugging things at night etc - are risks you manage; combustible materials in building are no different.
    mikemusic likes this.
  8. martin clark

    martin clark pinko bodger

    I meant to address this in the post above, but if once you've had a look and a think you remain concerned, consider fitting putty pads into the back-boxes (they might be present already)

    mikemusic likes this.
  9. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones pfm Member

    I should declare a CoI, as I am involved in something similar (In terms of policy, not as a witness). As ever, this is a personal view.

    The immunity argument is a fundamental problem with public inquiries. I think the Attorney General was (this afternoon?) due to issue a decision on it.

    The purpose of a public inquiry (which has far-reaching powers, enshrined in primary legislation) is to get to the truth. It's not clear how it can do so in these circs.
  10. mikemusic

    mikemusic pfm Member

    Thanks for the info.
    I will also be looking at those fireproof cones to put on top of the recessed downlighters that I can get to
  11. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    mikemusic likes this.
  12. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    What terrible luck, nothing suspicious there at all.
  13. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    This is real what-you-gonna-do-about-it levels of corruption. Looking forward to more like it: vintage years ahead for files going missing, evidence storage facilities burning down, witnesses developing dementia or falling out of windows.

    GB2020. What a country.
  14. jackbarron

    jackbarron Chelsea, London

  15. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    To me that is what has changed in recent years. It is now absolutely blatant and unashamed corruption and self-interest. They don’t even attempt to conceal it. We are at a global point where the POTUS happily quotes fringe conspiracy theory such as Q-Anon and attacks proper factual news reporting, even banning it from the Whitehouse. The UK Conservative Party clearly see this as their future. They see it works with enough people in an already stacked FPTP electoral system to get far-right governments over the line, and that is all that matters.
  16. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

    Can't be bothered to trawl all of the conspiracy theory etc........

    Grenfell was a tragedy on numerous levels. Root cause - the B.S. (as in British Standard) for testing the cladding was total pants - not new, seen it before and it will be the case now for some things, and will be again - no-one is perfect, not even the people behind writing B.S..

    In all probability, some people, maybe many, knew or suspected that.

    IMO - most likely by far - no-one was at fault - the test required for approval of the cladding was.
  17. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    The residents association knew it damn well. They flagged it in exceptional detail. The Conservative council knew it damn well as it had been reported to them multiple times by multiple people. They cut the costs below even the original inadequate specification. That they actually needed to lose data to evade these facts really speaks volumes.
    jackbarron and Seanm like this.
  18. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    Sales of nitric acid will go through the roof, I tell ya !
  19. martin clark

    martin clark pinko bodger

    'never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.'

    I work in the ambit of this industry. Listening to /reading the Grenfell Inquiry to date is utterly dismal.

    I can pretty-much see how some parties to date, got where they did: that much has been clear for a long time. Also, some of the attitudes displayed in earlier testimony are incredible indictments of complacency.

    I'm reluctant to express more until the fullest-possible picture emerges; which it must.

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