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Graham Audio LS5/9

Ayya Khema said:
i had the graham ls59 for about 8 month in my room and they do decent bass.

when i speak about hifi i mean comparing good driver vs good drivers. when it comes to bass its the one thing that is really not complex, a good 12” or 15” absolutely destroy a 8 inch for bass.

however, a 15 /12 inch needs a totally different speaker desing: ie implemented into a 3 way, or crossed to a horn for a 2 way and that brings a very different sound or set of compromise then a bbc 2 way. just integrating a 12/15 to a midrange around 300hz is often audible, or a horn have its own set of compromise in terms of coloration. i find that at about 8 inch, it can start to give satisfactory bass. never heard a 6,5 inch do bass without obvious serious limitations/coloration/distortion
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Bass reproduction and associated tastes are a funny thing. For some, it's an absolute necessity for it be a visceral, invigorating experience. But then, I can listen near-field to 5 inch cones and not feel left wanting for anything. It's illusory, but it just works. Same with IEM's. Perhaps something to do with being more of the headphone generation...

I'll be damned, but I'll take a quality experience every time. If you're fortunate to get both (ie with necessary quantity too, with multiple subs and flat in room response), it seems you're likely American!

Enough seems to work ok for me...I imagine the 5/9's would appease me nicely.
 
Perhaps it's easier to do without decent sub-bass (<60Hz) if one has never lived with it.

I listen mostly to classical music and really miss the low-end performance (extension and clarity) of a pair of Spendor SP9/1s I once had.
I'm not fully satisfyed with current speakers, a pair of SB LS3/6s, they could do with a pair of subs. Depending on the size of the sitting room I get when move into a new house next summer I will either consider a pair of subs or a lager replacement pair of speakers.
The pair of subs presents a problem at the moment because my integrated has only a single source input and a single speaker output. This means that I'd have to use the music player software volume control and either split the output signal or feed the subs into the speaker level inputs. And I'd like to high-pass the LS3/6s. All too complicated.
 
Hi Tuga,

Can you suggest a couple of pieces and what you heard in the sub-bass that underpinned the performance; hopefully NOT organ music please ;).

Thx,

M
 
Mr Underhill said:
Hi Tuga,

Can you suggest a couple of pieces and what you heard in the sub-bass that underpinned the performance; hopefully NOT organ music please ;).

Thx,

M
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Hi Mr U,

Are you sure you can't survive the prelude to R. Strauss' Also Sprach, or the 3rd mvt of Saint-Saens' Organ Symphony? :D

But any good classical music recording with some bowed double bass should do the trick. Jazz and rock bass notes are almost always plucked or strummed and that's easy.
The problem with smaller speakers is not just the size of the box or the diameter of the woofer but also the use of a higher tuning frequency on the bass-reflex. It makes for a mushy sound that's lacking in crispness and tonal descrimination. Bass-reflex (and TL) is a crutch...

R
 
tuga said:
Bass-reflex (and TL) is a crutch...
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Would you mind elaborating on this? Aren't transmission lines are revered for their ability to effortlessly breathe deep bass into a room? Many folk that own the larger IMF models enjoy listening to a lot of organ music on them!
 
ToTo Man said:
Would you mind elaborating on this? Aren't transmission lines are revered for their ability to effortlessly breathe deep bass into a room? Many folk that own the larger IMF models enjoy listening to a lot of organ music on them!
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That's their problem. :p
 
I used to assume that transmision lines would sound subjectively slow in the bass, but some little IPLs I heard were great and went surprisingly deep. When ported is done properly it can sound surprisingly tight too.
 
ToTo Man said:
You mean their speed (or lack thereof, to be pedantic)?
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Yep, transient response takes the toll.

Why crutch? According to the dictionary, a crutch is a long stick with a crosspiece at the top, used as a support under the armpit by a lame person.

Ideally you want a driver in a sealed enclosure transducing the signal. Ports and TLs and to a lesser extent passive radiators are as far as I know attempts at sugar-coating the inability of the topology to accurately reproduce the lower end of the spectrum.
 
fatmarley said:
I used to assume that transmision lines would sound subjectively slow in the bass, but some little IPLs I heard were great and went surprisingly deep. When ported is done properly it can sound surprisingly tight too.
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The "surprisingly deep" bit is where they excell...but there are side effects. These may or may not be a deal-breaker depending on who's listening. More not better bass.
 
I don't think it's possible to generalise to quite such an extent re TLs. The IMF PM mk3, for example, was known for having underdamped bass, but the mk4 is a very different beast with tight bass IME.
 
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tuga said:
Yep, transient response takes the toll.

Why crutch? According to the dictionary, a crutch is a long stick with a crosspiece at the top, used as a support under the armpit by a lame person.

Ideally you want a driver in a sealed enclosure transducing the signal. Ports and TLs and to a lesser extent passive radiators are as far as I know attempts at sugar-coating the inability of the topology to accurately reproduce the lower end of the spectrum.
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Having built 0.5q ported speakers, the transient response is extremely good. Any more so and I’d say they’d be edging over into the fatiguing to listen to category. Heard sealed speakers that aren’t as tight. I’d say implementation is more important than generalising by type. Of course there’s always trade offs whichever design is chosen
 
Ayya Khema said:
my speakers are a 10 inch 2 way: Seas a26. im very happy with them.
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Ayya....can you talk about your SEAS A26 with respect to the Grahams? For instance, tweeter clarity, room positioning, bass resolution.
Did you build them to spec? Thanks.
 
i only compared a26 vs shl5+, the graham were long gone when i got the a26



I think the shl5+ have slightly better mids then the A26, graham vs a26 mids, not so sure tbh. I thought the mids is where the shl5+ was slightly better then the graham. There is some magic in the harbeth mid imo, but it does seem to impart its own sound to every recordings. pick your poison? the A26 mids is good but doesnt have the resolution in tge mids of the harbeth: coltrane still sounds amazing and very dynamic with the A26

Imaging is not so good both in shl5+ and A26. the A26 are groovier, more dynamic, more powerful sounding. eventually, i found the shl5+ too strident in the treble for my taste. the treble: slightly too hot for me. same with the graham, too hot. the A26 with the 12 ohm resistor installed is smoother, you can even smooth it out even more with 15 ohm resistor. the ability to eq the tweeter via the resistor is so useful imo

Bass is very good on the shl5+, but i would give the edge to the A26 cause i find the A26 bass more dynamic and you get that big bass sound, where you feel the power behind the music if you know what i mean. the shl5+ you just dont feel the bass as much despite going lower. the 10 inch in tge A26 sounds big, it give that real instrument size image and body. the A26 is also able to sort of pressurize the room in that when you hear a kick drum or electronica bass, you dont just hear the bass, but you feel the air moving, you hear the drama, it has that wham, that sense of power behind the music. not sure how to describe. but even the shl5 couldnt do that big bass sound.

so, Bass and Treble, I prefer A26 over Graham and harbeth.
mids, slight edge to the Harbs. if you have 5 times more money, go with harbeth, but even then the treble bothered me on both the graham and harbs. the A26 are a great compromise.
 
ampedup said:
Ayya, that's great reply, thanks!
How do you position your A26s?
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tweeter on the inside
10 degree toe in maximum. the woofer has no lowpass filter, so the roll off behavior is very axis dependant. very slight toe in or no toe in works best.

the graham ls59 and harbeth shl5 are 5000$ speakers and are amazing speakers, i think the A26 for 1000$ give the same overall capabilities with its own set of compromise

btw recently got a pair of amphion argon 2. the Seas a26 ate them alive not even in the same league
 
Ayya, you make a convincing case to me, for the SEAS kit speaker. Thanks for your comprehensive replies. Cheers.
 
Ayya, one question: In what size room have you been listening to these various speakers? Any issues with bass overhang on the Grahams, Harbeth or SEAS?
 
ampedup said:
Ayya, one question: In what size room have you been listening to these various speakers? Any issues with bass overhang on the Grahams, Harbeth or SEAS?
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my room is well treated, with 10 inch thick panels made of roxul at every early reflection points (floor, ceiling, side walls and back wall) plus a few big bass traps. room is 10 x 14 feet. i place my speakers as to achieve the best in room response and experienced no bass overhang with any of the speakers mentioned!
 
Ayya, all very interesting and apologies if this info is elsewhere but are you in the UK and where did you source the kit from?
 
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