Strictly Stereo
Trade: Strictly Stereo
Some comparative in room measurements of the LS6 and LS5/9. I have added 20dB offset between the left and right channels for legibility.
Last edited:
Graham Audio LS5/9
- Thread starter vln
- Start date
sunbeamgls
pfm Member
Listen, don't measure. For example, you could've said Graham use an 8" mid range which is far too big compared to a more sensible 6.5" mid of the Dynaudio. See? Doesn't make sense to make generalisations. It makes much more sense to listen to them.
RossB
Former Member
A few years ago I owned a pair of Dynaudio C1s, and really couldn't stand them. I much prefer any of the Graham or Harbeth speakers I have had since, although they are considerably cheaper. This is not to suggest that the Dynaudios are bad speakers - they just didn't suit my tastes or my listening preferences. Dynaudios seem to need a lot of space, and a lot of volume to sound their best. The BBC designs work best in smaller spaces, in near field, and at relatively low volumes. This doesn't suit everybody, but it is how I prefer to listen to music. Although I don't think I would ever like the C1s with their rather dry and analytical sound under any conditions. You can have all the R&D facilities in the world but your product will still not suit everyone. For me, the Grahams are far more musical and engaging.
As between Graham and Harbeth, having owned Harbeth P3ESR, M30.1s and M30.2s in the last few years, as well as the Graham LS5/9, LS3/5 and LS6, it is ridiculous to say that the Harbeths are in any way better than the Grahams. Both are very good, but I prefer the Graham LS3/5s and LS6s to any of the Harbeths, and only marginally preferred the 30.2s to the LS5/9s, although the latter are in many ways the better speaker. The Harbeths manage to impose their character despite the amplifier and source used, while the Grahams are more transparent to the source and upstream components.
There is a huge amount of rubbish said on the Harbeth forum, one reason why I never bothered joining even during the years that I owned Harbeth speakers.
As between Graham and Harbeth, having owned Harbeth P3ESR, M30.1s and M30.2s in the last few years, as well as the Graham LS5/9, LS3/5 and LS6, it is ridiculous to say that the Harbeths are in any way better than the Grahams. Both are very good, but I prefer the Graham LS3/5s and LS6s to any of the Harbeths, and only marginally preferred the 30.2s to the LS5/9s, although the latter are in many ways the better speaker. The Harbeths manage to impose their character despite the amplifier and source used, while the Grahams are more transparent to the source and upstream components.
There is a huge amount of rubbish said on the Harbeth forum, one reason why I never bothered joining even during the years that I owned Harbeth speakers.
tuga
Legal Alien
Paul Burke
pfm Member
Some comparative in room measurements of the LS6 and LS5/9. I have added 20dB offset between the left and right channels for legibility.
Lee, out of interest do you have any measurements of them without as much room interaction? 1m gated etc, or is everything you took at listening position?
Ayya Khema
pfm Member
thing is, a 8 inch midbass will always be much better in the bass then a 6,5 inch. imo, 6,5 inch based speakers are toys and cannot ever be played loud: no matter how good the mid will be, bass will be compromised (distortion, imd, extension limited). id also say i like big mid sound, 6.5 inch mid will always sound “small”
while yes the 8 inch beams and is a compromise desing to make it play up to 2.5khz/3khz, its still much less compromised then asking a 6.5 inch midbass to do bass.
i wouldnt be surprised that from 160hz and up the dynaudio would be slightly more refined then the graham, but the bass on the graham will be undoubtly much better, can play louder, better extension, ect. for me bass is very important
and i also think 8 inch sound small for bass vs 10”. then you compare a 10” with a 15” and you tell me if its even worth mentioning the “bass” of a 6,5 inch woofer. so yeah, the confidence 20 priced at 12 000 euro is insanity beyond words
lets just say id buy the dynaudio contour 60 (2x 9 inch woofer) over the confidence 20 without a doubt
as for harbeth shl5+ vs graham ls59, ive had both and they are more similar sounding then not, i just prefered slightly the shl5+
Strictly Stereo
Trade: Strictly Stereo
I'm afraid not Paul, sorry.
tuga
Legal Alien
This is what a good speaker sounds like.
I didn't say they weren't excellent, some of them are indeed ime
My comment was hinted at the kind of Lemming effect going on "everything AS preech is right"
BTW I did notice the punctuation typo, thought I had edited but obviously not
Cereal Killer
432
The Volt BM228.8 (which i use in my own speakers) doesn't beam any more than the 6.5" unit that's in ProAc's SM100s (or other similar sized units) so generalising isn't always sufficient justification.
Cereal Killer
432
No.
Do you need to drive this car to know it will fail?
So tell me what size driver is in the ProAcs D30R's and new K3's?
(i think i could do that to any car coming down a ramp onto a positive camber like that)
tuga
Legal Alien
Cabinet size, shape, and type, driver size, number of ways, all combine to define the performance potential of a speaker, which will tell you what a speaker can or cannot do.
Cereal Killer
432
Totally, and the new Confidence 20s have a decent size cabinet for a 6.5" driver.
tuga
Legal Alien
So I guess one can say that the main limiting factor to the performace potential of the C20 is the size of the midwoofer: less low-frequency extension, lower max-SPL ceiling.
Which explains why as you go up the range the cabinet size increases and you get first an extra wofer then larger woofer. You also get a mirange driver which reduces intermodulation distortion and makes horizontal off-axis response smoother.
One could also add that smaller cabinets with ports or TL do not perform as well as larger sealed cabinets, but it's a trade-off that nearly all manufacturers have chosen to embrace (will'o'the'people?).
What one can't say is whether the Dynaudio 6.5" driver will perform better than the Volt 8" driver.
Cereal Killer
432
Indeed, point being its all about the implementation and the sum of parts and design as a whole.
Example, the VOLT BM228.8 in my 21L cabinet produce better (and lower) bass notes than the ATC50ASLs did. Both ported and one 2/5th the size.
This simulation was run at 20L 40Hz, the final designs 21.5L and port tuned to 38Hz, no humps or port chuffing.
Example, the VOLT BM228.8 in my 21L cabinet produce better (and lower) bass notes than the ATC50ASLs did. Both ported and one 2/5th the size.
This simulation was run at 20L 40Hz, the final designs 21.5L and port tuned to 38Hz, no humps or port chuffing.
Are Volt making any finished speakers or available in any known brands ?
Cereal Killer
432
ProAc K Series use Volt drivers. PMC use there Radial drivers. Robson Acoustics use the BM228.8 unit too.
tuga
Legal Alien
As far as I know, Graham Audio, PMC and ProAc use them. AVI used them in the past.
Tigerjones
Bagpuss
As well as making excellent speakers. As you say amazing.
Last edited:
vln
Shuns mooks. And MQA.
It's pretty impressive - the room (hall?) is 13 x 13 x 13 meters:
https://www.dynaudio.com/dynaudio-a...jupiter-delivers-dynaudio-s-trademark-quality
The new confidence series was the first model line to be developed with the help of this room, followed by Core and Evoke.
TBH I'd rather buy an expensive speaker from a company using conventional cabinet and driver material and a facility like that, than from a company that uses much more exotic stuff because it makes them sound cool on marketing material but that has much less understanding of what they are doing.