Gas Boilers; Are stocks in serious shortage?

[Mike Reed]

My sister's Gas Safe chappie, whilst doing a service 2 days ago, said that there was a major shortage due to parts (chip sets, probably); Of 40 Baxi/W.B. he had in stock recently, he only had 6 left and can't easily order more in.

Is this his peculiar position, or Worcester-Bosch's or across the board, I wonder. If so, surely other white goods like washing machines will be similarly affected. Stock shortage of anything usually hikes the price, assuming demand is there.

Anyone know?

 

[SteveG]

The chap who was doing the survey for our imminent boiler replacement mentioned that Worcester-Bosch stuff was in short supply.

 

[twotone]

No issues here, think as said above, WB have issues with one of their range of boilers Life 2000 I think, they can't get fans apparently but I've had no contact from my suppliers regarding boiler shortages or indeed parts.

 

[hifinutt]

yes baxi are on 3 months waiting list here in west midlands and other boilers in short supply . wb as well although friend had one fitted week ago

my gas engineer has a baxi sitting in the shop waiting for a job for some while now and all the other engineers keep trying to grab it due to the shortage !!

 

[Ellenor]

Baxi are having trouble at the moment. Waiting times depend on where you're getting them from. Saw a few 600 combis on the shelf in our local Wolseley last week but i'm still waiting for one from my local independent supplier (that I'm in no hurry for).

I hear WB can be a two week wait. Viessmann are okay but they seem to come over in batches.

Electronics are the problem from what I've been told.

I keep pleading with my customers not to just wait till their old boilers pack up before deciding to have a new one...

 

[Mike Reed]

I keep pleading with my customers not to just wait till their old boilers pack up before deciding to have a new one...

For me that sounds ominous, so I wonder about your reasons. We're coming into spring where heating requirements will be tailing off and it's a lot easier to get a new boiler installation (i.e. the personnel) during summer months. Do you think there's going to be an increasing shortage across the board leading to supply uncertainties and consequent price hikes?

You may remember my boiler woes thread in January, to which you contributed. Having got the old girl firing away nicely since early Feb., we're holding on before renewing. We haven't yet had a quote from the plumber, though that is understandable under his and our circumstances. As a quote can only be guaranteed for a set period, we don't want to be rushed into a major job just yet. If it was a dry joint in the ignition circuit (as it's been diagnosed), it seems to have moisturised itself !

 

[Ellenor]

For me that sounds ominous, so I wonder about your reasons. We're coming into spring where heating requirements will be tailing off and it's a lot easier to get a new boiler installation (i.e. the personnel) during summer months. Do you think there's going to be an increasing shortage across the board leading to supply uncertainties and consequent price hikes?

You may remember my boiler woes thread in January, to which you contributed. Having got the old girl firing away nicely since early Feb., we're holding on before renewing. We haven't yet had a quote from the plumber, though that is understandable under his and our circumstances. As a quote can only be guaranteed for a set period, we don't want to be rushed into a major job just yet. If it was a dry joint in the ignition circuit (as it's been diagnosed), it seems to have moisturised itself !

“I’ll just wait till it goes wrong” is what I hear on a very regular basis. There used to be one problem with that and was the law of the sod making sure it happened during the coldest and my busiest time of the year. I always made it clear I’m very busy during the winter months and can’t just fit a new boiler the same day, the next day or probably even that week. Now there’s the supply issue too.

It’s good that your old boiler heard you threatening to replace it so decided it wanted to live a bit longer. Looks like it might get you through to spring.

 

[SteveG]

Our boiler replacement is due to get done in the middle of this month. The 25-year old current one one is working fine but I decided to get it replaced at a time of my choosing, rather than waiting for it to fail.

As we're getting a combi fitted to replace a "standard" set-up there is a bit of extra work to do but it's pretty much bang on £5K including stuff like a power flush and removing the hot water tank etc. That's for a 38Kw combi (replacing the current 17.8Kw boiler which has always seemed a bit marginal for our house). We are expecting to see some savings on heating costs, but there are also significant savings on maintenance costs over the first 5 years or so.

 

[twotone]

Our boiler replacement is due to get done in the middle of this month. The 25-year old current one one is working fine but I decided to get it replaced at a time of my choosing, rather than waiting for it to fail.

As we're getting a combi fitted to replace a "standard" set-up there is a bit of extra work to do but it's pretty much bang on £5K including stuff like a power flush and removing the hot water tank etc. That's for a 38Kw combi (replacing the current 17.8Kw boiler which has always seemed a bit marginal for our house). We are expecting to see some savings on heating costs, but there are also significant savings on maintenance costs over the first 5 years or so.

Seems really expensive, I used to do open vent to combi conversions regularly but not in the last ten years or so even with a Worcester Bosch 37CDi the price was around £3k.

The only savings you'll see are on the hot water taking out a cylinder and fitting a combi the estimated savings on the gas used was about 25% per year but you only use about 10% off energy for hot water vs heating so 25% seems a lot but it's not that much if your gas bills are something like £600 a year which was about the norm ten years ago so spending £5k to save about £150 year was pointless most of my customers were made well aware of this cause the good old gas board threw those figures about all of the time the other issues is that your old boiler won't be much less efficient than a new boiler ie SE boilers are about 70% efficient if they have a pilot about 65% efficient and modern band A boilers including combi boilers have about a mean efficiency of around 82% efficient however they're about 90% efficient when they condense but they only condense about 20% of the time which is why the mean efficiency figure is a bit lower.

With a modern Y or S Plan system the savings will be marginal at best BTW the above refers to an old hot water cylinder with no insulation and gravity primaries ie no cylinder stat and no means of control the hot water independently from the heating.

 

[SteveG]

Seems really expensive, I used to do open vent to combi conversions regularly but not in the last ten years or so even with a Worcester Bosch 37CDi the price was around £3k.

The online quoting engines were tending to come in with prices at the £3K to £4K range (dependent on what size of boiler you went for) but didn't include some of the extra work, like the power flush for example. So while I think it could have been had a bit cheaper, on balance I decided to go with our existing maintenance partner.

The only savings you'll see are on the hot water taking out a cylinder and fitting a combi the estimated savings on the gas used was about 25% per year but you only use about 10% off energy for hot water vs heating so 25% seems a lot but it's not that much if your gas bills are something like £600 a year which was about the norm ten years ago so spending £5k to save about £150 year was pointless most of my customers were made well aware of this cause the good old gas board threw those figures about all of the time the other issues is that your old boiler won't be much less efficient than a new boiler ie SE boilers are about 70% efficient if they have a pilot about 65% efficient and modern band A boilers including combi boilers have about a mean efficiency of around 82% efficient however they're about 90% efficient when they condense but they only condense about 20% of the time which is why the mean efficiency figure is a bit lower.

The old boiler was classed as something like 78% efficient compared to the 95% I think the new one is, and this is a fairly sizeable house so does cost quite a bit to heat (and will be even more when our current deal expires). I suspect the maintenance savings over the first 5 years will be higher than the actual savings on gas use (especially as we don't live in this house full time any more), however savings weren't why we decided to go ahead (they are more of a side benefit). The main reasons is that the current boiler is out of support, with many parts no longer available - to the extent that the support contract is now a "best endeavours" basis with much heightened maintenance costs. It's also likely we'll be selling the house within the next couple of years and I expect that it'll have a slight but positive impact on the value of the property as the old boiler would definitely get highlighted as an issue in a survey.

My wife is also keen on the extra space she'll have in the cupboard that currently contains the hot water tank, and it'll also be nice to regain the space in the loft where the cold water tank is!

 

[twotone]

The online quoting engines were tending to come in with prices at the £3K to £4K range (dependent on what size of boiler you went for) but didn't include some of the extra work, like the power flush for example. So while I think it could have been had a bit cheaper, on balance I decided to go with our existing maintenance partner.



The old boiler was classed as something like 78% efficient compared to the 95% I think the new one is, and this is a fairly sizeable house so does cost quite a bit to heat (and will be even more when our current deal expires). I suspect the maintenance savings over the first 5 years will be higher than the actual savings on gas use (especially as we don't live in this house full time any more), however savings weren't why we decided to go ahead (they are more of a side benefit). The main reasons is that the current boiler is out of support, with many parts no longer available - to the extent that the support contract is now a "best endeavours" basis with much heightened maintenance costs. It's also likely we'll be selling the house within the next couple of years and I expect that it'll have a slight but positive impact on the value of the property as the old boiler would definitely get highlighted as an issue in a survey.

My wife is also keen on the extra space she'll have in the cupboard that currently contains the hot water tank, and it'll also be nice to regain the space in the loft where the cold water tank is!

Which boiler do you have?

I was at a customer last week with a Potterton Profile 80E that I installed back in 2000 it's an S plan system with about 17 rads that boiler will last another 20 years easily.

I replaced the fan, the thermostat knob on the boiler, the boiler controls cover and replaced a TRV head for her £450.

 

[SteveG]

Which boiler do you have?

I was at a customer last week with a Potterton Profile 80E that I installed back in 2000 it's an S plan system with about 17 rads that boiler will last another 20 years easily.

I replaced the fan, the thermostat knob on the boiler, the boiler controls cover and replaced a TRV head for her £450.

It's a Potterton Suprima 60. There are still parts available for it, but not everything is my understanding. It's pretty much like Trigger's broom as everything other than the outer case has been replaced at least once over the years, plus I think we're the last of the houses in my little estate that are still on the original one.

BTW the decision to change to a combi was mine, not the folks that are doing the replacement.

 

[twotone]

It's a Potterton Suprima 60. There are still parts available for it, but not everything is my understanding. It's pretty much like Trigger's broom as everything other than the outer case has been replaced at least once over the years, plus I think we're the last of the houses in my little estate that are still on the original one.

BTW the decision to change to a combi was mine, not the folks that are doing the replacement.

Decent boilers the Suprima but terrible PCBs, think the PCB for yours is about £400 now but you can get reconditioned ones on Ebay plus SH ones too, I'd scrap it too if I were you.

Combi boilers are brilliant I've had three now in the last 30 years, two in the current house and one in the previous house, the old house boiler was twelve years old when we left in 2005 and I never spent a penny on it I didn't even service it.

The last boiler before the current one was installed here in the current house back in May 2006 and I only replaced it in December 2020 and again never serviced it and only spent about £100 on it in all of the years it was installed, it started acting up on hot water so I replaced it rather than throwing money at it.

 

[SteveG]

Decent boilers the Suprima but terrible PCBs, think the PCB for yours is about £400 now but you can get reconditioned ones on Ebay plus SH ones too, I'd scrap it too if I were you.

It's had a few PCB's over the years but overall has been reasonably reliable despite probably being a bit on the small side since we extended the house (which added a few more radiators as well as another bathroom) about 15 years back. It certainly doesn't owe us anything!

Combi boilers are brilliant I've had three now in the last 30 years, two in the current house and one in the previous house, the old house boiler was twelve years old when we left in 2005 and I never spent a penny on it I didn't even service it.

The last boiler before the current one was installed here in the current house back in May 2006 and I only replaced it in December 2020 and again never serviced it and only spent about £100 on it in all of the years it was installed, it started acting up on hot water so I replaced it rather than throwing money at it.

We've got a combi in our other house and I've been quite impressed with that. That's an oil fired Grant one, fitted about 18 months and is 26Kw despite that house being at best half the size of this one with it's 17.8Kw one (and 4 times as many bathrooms and at least double the radiators).

Another of the extras (which also added a little bit to the cost) we're getting fitted along with the new combi is one of those systems that can be controlled remotely via the internet. I might upgrade our cottage to also have one of those as it'll definitely be useful to be able to control the heating when we're on route between them.

 

[Mike Reed]

With a modern Y or S Plan system the savings will be marginal at best BTW the above refers to an old hot water cylinder with no insulation and gravity primaries ie no cylinder stat and no means of control the hot water independently from the heating.

Sounds like mine, Tony (Potterton Netaheat 2). No valves, gravity fed bathroom rad. and only water and htg+ water options. Nothing has been replaced in the 20 years we've been here and I doubt anything before that.

I'm happy with the gravity/limited control situation (I'm old school !) but don't think these are available any more..

I thought, when replacing a boiler, that a full flush was mandatory; if not, it's as if you're only getting half the job done and likely to impact upon the efficiency of the new boiler/system.

 

[hifinutt]

Had 5 days of plumbers replacing myson roll top x6 and 35kw vaillant boiler for 5k but no vat . Rads were 1400 alone . Not keen on the usual cheap grill type in this application

Had ecotec 28 in may replaced with expensive vertical flue at 2.3 k

 

[hifinutt]

We have noticed a huge difference in heating since had new boiler and rads. Place is baking now !!! Not sure what it's done for running costs but seems similar to previous costs

 

[Bob McC]

We had a new condensing boiler fitted two years ago replacing an old type with hot tank. We added thermostatic valves throughout.
Our bills are much lower now.

 

[Ellenor]

I thought, when replacing a boiler, that a full flush was mandatory; if not, it's as if you're only getting half the job done and likely to impact upon the efficiency of the new boiler/system.

System treatment is part of building regs. Bloody annoys me when you see quotes for hundreds of pounds for flushing a system as an extra. It’s bullshit if you ask me. My prices include flushing systems. I go to the job a week of two before starting (where possible) and put a bottle of cleanser in so it can do it’s job. Then it’s a fairly simple blast out using the powerflush machine before connecting the new boiler up.

 

[SteveG]

That's our new combi fitted, along with a Hive set-up. My wife is very happy with the extra loft and cupboard space with the hot and cold water tanks removed.

It'll be interesting to see what savings we get, however I expect being able to control the thermostat remotely will be useful.