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Gas and Electricity Prices

Discussion in 'off topic' started by gordonscobie, Sep 14, 2021.

  1. clivem2

    clivem2 pfm Member

    Re the fuel poverty calculation, is the income net or gross?
     
  2. Aethelist

    Aethelist pfm Member

    Not so long ago people were bragging on here about how little they paid for their Gas and Electric by going with the latest lad and his dad who'd set themselves up as energy providers in their bedroom. Cheap as chips. Greatest deal ever. Whoopee for me.

    How Ofgem ever allowed that to happen is a national scandal.
     
    Bob McC and clivem2 like this.
  3. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    My soup is from the best chicken stock and us definitely superior.

    Electricity may go in cycles, but this thread doesn't have to go round in circles discussing who's rich and who's poor because it's all dependent and variable. Benefit claimants are technically poor, but at least they have an income. The homeless appear to be in a worse situation but are not subject to these rising energy costs. There are those who have no idea of nor inclination to budget and have racked up debts which are unlikely to be paid. At least, apart from those tenants whose rent includes energy (and are subject to appropriate rent increases), the vast majority of domestic energy users do get some relief this winter. Businesses, tiny or large, do not; do they slot into the 'poor' category?
     
  4. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    I currently pay £68 a month, even if that were to double or triple I wouldn't be paying 10% of my income on fuel.
     
  5. Aethelist

    Aethelist pfm Member

    £68? That has to be a bedsit / studio mid floor flat right inside the middle of a new build block.
     
  6. clivem2

    clivem2 pfm Member

    That has to be almost only the standing charge..
     
    Bob McC likes this.
  7. John R

    John R pfm Member

    I wonder if the WEF's long term plan for us plebs has anything to do with this mess the world is in?
     
  8. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    Not yet.
    The companies are aggregating the estimated years costs.
    Wait until October then January…
     
  9. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader From the Dark Side

    From the calculations above we will be in fuel poverty. Today our fuel bills are approx 10% of our joint income. If the price goes up even a tiny bit we'll be paying more than 10% of our joint income.

    DV
     
  10. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    I just came back from two months in France.
    Octopus standing charge was just short of £40 for those two months. How you pay £68 beats me.
     
  11. Ponty

    Ponty pfm Member

    OK, there’s a big problem with this definition. Anyone on £100K has choices in life. They don’t have to live in a house which costs £10K a year to heat. If they choose to, they can afford to heat it, even if that means compromises elsewhere. That’s a choice. I’m talking about people who don’t have a choice. The 10% figure is meaningless. It takes no account of peoples outgoings, commitments or lifestyle. A pensioner on say £20K a year could pay a £3K a year energy bill if they have no mortgage / rent and dependants. A family with 3 kids and a mortgage / rent would be in a completely different situation and would clearly need help.
     
  12. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    Good Evening All,

    In identifying those who are paying ≥10% of their take home pay (easiest definition) in energy costs then, clearly, two things need to happen. Financial support needs to be made available along with an assessment of what can be done to reduce that outgoing which brings us back to improving the insulation value of the property and/ or altering the equipment in use in the property.

    Work upwards from the bottom.

    It isn't difficult to do - the difficulty lies in the will to do so.

    Regards

    Richard
     
  13. matt j

    matt j pfm Member

    2 bed 2 bath flat, top floor. It has actually gone up, I was paying £60. No doubt it will go up in Nov when my deal ends but even if it 4x it won't be the end of the world.
     
  14. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    Think it's net ie take home pay.
     
  15. clivem2

    clivem2 pfm Member

    At this time of year I doubt insulation is a factor. Light bulbs maybe, hopefully people have switched to LED, even though these are thought to have health issues due to their light wavelength. Then we are left with cooking, probably the highest cost, possibly hot water too though many will be on combos so not too bad.

    The costs I’ve seen to insulate are hopelessly inadequate, not remotely covering the whole job and using cowboys to do the work. This must and can be resolved. As for cavity wall insulation, many walls are not suitable, for example we have a north facing gable end into a slightly damp cellar…cavity wall insults would be a disaster, the rest of the house is solid wall. A lot of the victorian/Edwardian housing stock isn’t so different. We could rebuild but U.K. house building standards are so very poor.
     
    twotone likes this.
  16. Mystic Mac

    Mystic Mac cauliflower ears not golden ears....

    Electricity may go in cycles? You throw this term ‘may’ around a little loosely.... energy costs had risen 50% in real terms from 1996 to around 2020

    Benefit claimants are not ‘technically’ poor, they are literally poor, and I personally wouldn’t call the pittance that is Universal Credits an income, it doesn’t really facilitate any existence of note.

    I am not quite sure why you referenced the homeless?? Or are you implying they should be grateful that they don’t have to pay utility bills ... the lucky barstewards.

    Businesses can adjust the price of their product to ameliorate rising energy costs. So maybe not an appropriate comparison.
     
    twotone likes this.
  17. Ponty

    Ponty pfm Member

    Right. So a £10K a year energy bill for someone on £170K a year gross salary has a definition of poverty attached to it. Meaningless.
     
  18. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    My monthly payments have just gone up by £100 a month to £299 a month there's £37 a month going to money we owe the energy supplier, we're currently in debit per month by about £90, for context my wife and I live in a 1930s brick built bungalow with three bedrooms, two bedrooms upstairs but we only live in the bottom part of the house so one bedroom and a lounge and kitchen and a dining room which is rarely used.

    The above payments/costs are only for the summer months not winter.
     
  19. Aethelist

    Aethelist pfm Member

    Flats are quite cheap to run but just to add a bit of perspective, we live in a 1930's detached bungalow with a lot of heat loss wall perimeter. Our average bills over the lat 15 years or so have been around £100 a month. No biggie.

    Now we are expecting to pay 4x that. For no reason other than the failure of of the government and Ofgem to regulate the market. It beggars belief. It really does.
     
    Mystic Mac and twotone like this.
  20. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    Well there's a few people on here, in this thread ,who are looking down the barrel of four times their usual monthly payments it doesn't really matter how much money you have but if you live in a house even with an income of £170k a year or whatever your fuel costs are going up by at least four times what they were earlier this month and punters with those sort of earnings aren't living in a two bed room flat or a 1930s bungalow.
     
    Mystic Mac likes this.

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