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Gas and Electricity Prices

Discussion in 'off topic' started by gordonscobie, Sep 14, 2021.

  1. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    In fairness I think most people on this forum would recognise there are those who are genuinely in need and, pretty obviously, another sector who won't really be affected by increased prices particularly, it is the large group in between these places who I, personally, am not particularly inclined to feel sorry for. Something about life choices?

    The availability of, seemingly, cheap money has drawn an awful lot of people into places they should never have gone and now, somehow, that is looking to affect the wider society. I don't want to pay that cost, please advise when the bus will stop so I can get off and let the rest continue on the journey!

    Essentially those of us who have shown prudence are likely to be viewed as "monied" and taxed accordingly?

    Regards

    Richard
     
    Ellenor, Chops54 and Ponty like this.
  2. Ponty

    Ponty pfm Member

    Quite. Those in genuine need should be helped. It seems some think this is an impossible viewpoint for anyone voting conservative to have.
     
  3. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    You missed the e bah gum, Dec.:D

    Aside, why can't one quote from more than one page in a reply? I've often wondered in this clever but incomprehensible digital age. Oh well....
     
  4. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Shops selling knick-knacks and gizmos. In my 33 years of surveying shopping streets ('71 to 2002, retail centres went from individual food and other shops with the occasional dept. store, early SM or fashion chain, with a few Arndales in the north, to a mall or 2 in every town and multiple chains all over the place, with beauty/cosmetic outlets also proliferating. However, the massive increase I saw in gadget/gift shops always amazed me; who would want these useless items? Britain was booming in the latter half of the eighties but that boom largely comprised a sizeable increase in spending; for spending's sake, seemingly.

    Many fishies of a certain age will be well aware of this trend, but I think the cycle is now turning, and not before time, to buying what you need, not fancy. Shopping online has been an enormous ingredient in this change, of course, but I think even that will wane.

    As an aside, I loved popping into the local hifi shop (and most decent retail conurbations had one); one of the joys of my (part-time) job. Kept me fit !!!
     
  5. matthewr

    matthewr spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld

    On the contrary, the idea of the deserving and underserving poor has always been popular with conservatives and a legal distinction since the Poor Law amendment act of 1834.

    "The attempt to distinguish between different categories of the poor is almost as old as the modern British state. The Elizabethan poor laws were designed to keep the poor at home – and thus to stop them from becoming vagrants. By the time of the Napoleonic wars, however, the rise in population, the escalating cost of war, and sharp differences in the scale of poor relief between urban and rural parishes, all led to the conclusion that the old poor law wasn't working. Utilitarians insisted that a great deal of poverty was not inevitable but a product of fecklessness. Economists like Rev Thomas Malthus argued that the Elizabethan poor law encouraged irresponsibly large families. All this has a horribly familiar ring again today."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jan/27/rich-poor-deserving-undeserving
     
  6. paulfromcamden

    paulfromcamden Baffled

    Not really. After all great swathes of the country habitually vote Conservative and most people are fundamentally decent.

    This Conservative government on the other hand have made it quite clear they hold the poor in absolute contempt.

    Imagine a government minister going on TV to announce that people struggling to feed their children and heat their homes should just get a better paid job.
     
    twotone, Curtis, matt j and 2 others like this.
  7. paulfromcamden

    paulfromcamden Baffled

    Hopefully that includes fripperies like records and hi-fi equipment ;-)
     
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr and Mike Reed like this.
  8. farfromthesun

    farfromthesun pfm Member

  9. Ponty

    Ponty pfm Member

    Cheerful soul isn’t he. Of course he makes valid points but the problem with economists such as these is that their economic theory and views are politically motivated. We’ve been through these cycles plenty of times and we’ll come through it. Ultimately, optimists generally win.
     
  10. Ponty

    Ponty pfm Member

    I’d agree that this conservative govt needs moderating. Having said that, only 2 years ago they implemented some pretty left wing policies around covid, but that’s all forgotten now.
     
  11. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

    I think he's missing the point that much of our inflation is a direct result of the war in Ukraine and Russia knows this. They are waging economic war on the west via energy prices. We need to recognize this and get on a wartime footing:
    - A plan for energy rationing so that energy is prioritized to where it is most needed.
    - Windfall taxes on energy companies (who should be allowed to make a profit, but not a killing on the back of this crisis)

    But I agree with him that there is a high likelihood of unrest this winter (likely Putin's plan) - recognizing that we're at war, explaining this to people, and prioritizing help for the vulnerable might help keep some cohesion to society.
     
    Richard Lines likes this.
  12. farfromthesun

    farfromthesun pfm Member

    You keep saying things like this:
    I think this probably just betrays the extent to which you're insulated from what's coming down the pipe. For a huge number of people - for example, 9 million households who will experience fuel poverty this winter (approx 1/3 of the UK) - it pretty much will be all doom and gloom and nothing to be cheerful about.
     
  13. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Maybe, but being a pessimist means at least that you can say " I'm glad it's not as bad as I thought" with the alternative of being right. Being an optimist has its downsides.;)

    Maybe it's genetic, but my father was a glass half full person but there again, he did have Parkinsons.
     
  14. Mystic Mac

    Mystic Mac cauliflower ears not golden ears....

    Sometimes a glass half full kinda guy, sometimes a glass half empty... and on this occasion I’m feeling optimistic about the Don’t Pay UK movement.
     
  15. klfrs

    klfrs chill out

    In fair weather, but usually the first to loose their blouses when the hard times come.
     
  16. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    What I don’t understand about the deserving vs undeserving poor is, who gets to decide who falls into which category, and on what criteria? Let’s take two scenarios.

    Scenario 1: ‘Hard-working’ family, both parents working, just about managing. One child falls ill and needs constant care. Family can’t make ends meet on one salary, fall behind with bills and mortgage payments, face eviction.

    Scenario 2: Father a bit of a villain; in and out of prison, rarely employed. Mother struggles to cope, falls into depression and is unable to work. Only regular source of income is benefits.

    Which of the above families is more ‘deserving’? Should the less-deserving family be punished in some way?
     
    klfrs likes this.
  17. Ponty

    Ponty pfm Member

    What does that mean? Are you suggesting 1/3 of people in the UK won’t be able to heat their home, or is it the case that a great deal of those can pay, but will have to reduce non essential, discretionary spending?
     
  18. Mystic Mac

    Mystic Mac cauliflower ears not golden ears....

    Deserving poor vs undeserving poor, it’s quite condescending really.

    The poor are poor because they lesser... eugenics
    The poor are feckless.... Boris Johnson
    Poverty is a “personality defect”.... Thatcher

    it’s a mindset/ideology reinforced by elitist schools like Elton and propagandists such as the Murdoch empire, Telegraph, The Times etc

    When one is from good stock, one knows they are superior.
     
    twotone, sean99 and klfrs like this.
  19. Mystic Mac

    Mystic Mac cauliflower ears not golden ears....


    My partner is what you would describe as a senior management figure at an energy supplier. She has been listening to calls from customers crying because they cannot afford their new monthly direct debit payments. Elderly customers with nothing more than state pensions as income. What do you suggest they cut back on? Their custard creams?

    For some perspective there are around 12 million over 65s in the UK.
     
  20. Ponty

    Ponty pfm Member

    No, people who genuinely cannot pay should be helped. I’m trying to understand how many that it, I suspect it’s not 1/3 of the country.
     

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