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Gas and Electricity Prices

Last week's Briefing Room on R4 had a good overview of things.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0019z38

The overall consensus seemed to be to go with OFGEM's recommendation to let the cap rise to keep the focus on the cost of energy and drive public behaviour towards greater energy efficiency, but provide a rebate to the bottom 30-60% of the UK with the lowest household incomes and reinvigorate household insulation schemes.

Still treats the symptoms, not what causes them.

Yes, we should *also* be working on improved energy efficiency, expanding use of other sources of energy, etc. But that isn't going to help people survive the next year or so. Although the Truss Muppet idea of doing away with green levies is really bonkers. What we actually need is to over-rule tory nimbies and get on with builiding more wind farms, etc.
 
Yes. I thought I'd already said that we would tell them how much they would have to sell to us, and for how much/kWh. Then leave any more above that for them to sell elsewhere at World Market prices. So they still make some profit from us, and can make more per kWh elsewhere on top. But this would be done by some form of Crown Decree during a National Emergency caused by War.

Erm, wouldn't they all go instantly bankrupt?
 
I've also been thinking of Solar PV. Two reasons. One being the obvious - to get electrical energy to use/store (or sell back to the grid). The other is that when - as during the last few days -it is 'sunny' the black slates on our roof turn upstairs into an oven! Even though we're well North, the last few days has deliver > 30C in our bedrooms even with all the windows wide and fans blowing though air. Far hotter upstairs than down.

Our bedrooms are built into the roof-space.

Jim,

We've been in a similar situation, it can be ameliorated by really working on the insulation in the attic space and making sure the likes of soffit/ roof vents are kept well clear.

Forgive me if I'm teaching Granny to suck eggs here but if you adequately insulate the attic 'floor' with the 300mm fibreglass or whatever but you need to ensure EVERY surface of the rooms are also adequately insulated especially sloping ceilings. We have 90mm PIR between rafters and 50mm underlaid here ourselves. The Velux's have siesta blinds and some have anti-heat blinds.

Anybody on here with experience of solar power roof venting?

Regards

Richard
 
Jim,

We've been in a similar situation, it can be ameliorated by really working on the insulation in the attic space and making sure the likes of soffit/ roof vents are kept well clear.

Forgive me if I'm teaching Granny to suck eggs here but if you adequately insulate the attic 'floor' with the 300mm fibreglass or whatever but you need to ensure EVERY surface of the rooms are also adequately insulated especially sloping ceilings. We have 90mm PIR between rafters and 50mm underlaid here ourselves. The Velux's have siesta blinds and some have anti-heat blinds.

Anybody on here with experience of solar power roof venting?

Regards

Richard
If I read Jim correctly he doesn't have an attic as that is where the bedrooms have been built. We are the same. I'm sitting in my office and the ceiling is the sloping roof. Its cool today at only 27 but it has been 39 degrees.

DV
 
Erm, wouldn't they all go instantly bankrupt?

Nope. I'm talking about the companies that extract the gas/oil. From us they'd get the same profit as before as their extraction costs are the same. Any surplus they extract above what we take they can sell at World Price elsewhere.

This is the other side of the coin as to why it is crazy to cap the companies that 'sell to customers in the UK'. Which are *different* companies to the above.

Don't be confused by similar names in some cases. Large international corps *chose* to create quite distinct companies for extraction and for sales to end-users because that aided their tax-dodging, etc. Now we can use it for our advantage. The onshore 'independent* companies benefit from what I'm explaining as they aren't capped and get supply at the price *we* set, not World Price. so for them this is as if the problem hadn't happened in the first place. As it is, many will be in trouble as a result of the way we now 'cap' *them*!
 
Jim,

We've been in a similar situation, it can be ameliorated by really working on the insulation in the attic space and making sure the likes of soffit/ roof vents are kept well clear.

We are *also* going to deal with improving roof and underfloor insulation, etc. PV isn't the only change I have in mind. Although given your response you may be able to advise on one point:

Are there reason to make it better to do one task before the other? i.e. is is better to install better insulation before something like PV? Or the other way about? Or does it not really matter?
 
We are *also* going to deal with improving roof and underfloor insulation, etc. PV isn't the only change I have in mind. Although given your response you may be able to advise on one point:

Are there reason to make it better to do one task before the other? i.e. is is better to install better insulation before something like PV? Or the other way about? Or does it not really matter?

Always insulation before anything else doesn’t always happen through.
 
If I read Jim correctly he doesn't have an attic as that is where the bedrooms have been built. We are the same. I'm sitting in my office and the ceiling is the sloping roof. Its cool today at only 27 but it has been 39 degrees.

DV

Yes. Similar here. The recent 'heatwave' - even though we are in Scotland well north of the 'amber zone' has meant days (and nights) where it was at or above 30C in the bedroom whilst more like 25C downstairs. Sloping roof with black slates. When you open the bedroom windows to get in fresh air it can come in *hotter* than the air already in the room! I suspect that on occasion you could fry eggs on the slates.
 
Insulation gives a higher ROI than PV.

Presumably, also quicker and less prone to snags. I've assumed doing insulation first, but wanted to check in case there's a snag with that.

FWIW There is some insulation now. But it is pretty thin by modern standards I'd suspect. Not been in the loft-space for ages though.
 
Not sure what you mean - is a comma missing?

Probably I’m not great at writing to be honest.

What I mean is insulation is the most important thing so do that first, the insulation will save you money on fuel bills but remember it will also keep the house cold if you don’t heat the house, just like a fridge.

The doesn’t always happen comment was about people not prioritising insulation ie spending money on other things first ie solar PV for example, new car etc.
 
Presumably, also quicker and less prone to snags. I've assumed doing insulation first, but wanted to check in case there's a snag with that.

The only snag we found was with cavity wall insulation. Because our kitchen is an extension running down one side of the house, to install it required drilling holes in the kitchen to ensure a proper fill so we went without. However, the additional loft insulation, making the loft hatch a snug fit and replacing a poorly-fitting window paid dividends. We rarely have to have the thermostat in our 90s built house above 18C. The only downside is that our house will tale about 2-3 days after the temperature drops for the house to stop being hotter than docker's armpit.

There's a lot you can do to reduce costs before the expense of PV / Ground-source heat pump: thermostatic valves on the rads, heavy curtains that reach the floor for external doors and windows (unless a rad is below), thermal blinds, loft insulation, floor insulation, resealing UPVC windows and doors, draught excluder strips for non UPVC doors, etc

One trick that our predecessors did was to utilise a 'snug'; one (small) sitting room in the house to heat during the coldest months and leave the rest.
 
I've got a late 1970s detached house with London brick walls (no render). I haven't got cavity wall insulation and won't have it as my house really gets the weather and the bricks are quite porous, neighbour has plenty of trouble with his filled cavities. I have insulated some of the bedroom walls as i've been getting around to decorating by battening off the walls and insulation with 25mm Celotex before plasterboarding and skimming over. I think that's the best i can do and i feel it does a good job. Crikey this foam insulation is expensive though, you can see why many people don't bother.
 
Are there reason to make it better to do one task before the other? i.e. is is better to install better insulation before something like PV? Or the other way about? Or does it not really matter?

I would always advocate insulation before other investments. "Living in the attic" as such is quite common in older buildings, certainly old stone farmhouses in our part of Scotland. Installing "adequate" levels of insulation is likely to be very disruptive though as plasterboard (or lath and plaster) will need to come down in order to access the rafters. You need to gain access to all flat areas to downstairs room ceilings which will lie behind any partition walls to get the 300mm insulation in and then insulate behind all vertical wall sections.

We have 50mm PIR between framing and then overlay that with another 50mm on the non-room side on all vertical wall sections.

The sloping ceiling (coomb) is the worst to deal with. You need to leave 50mm space (as I recall) between the insulation and roof felt/ slates. You will "lose" space when you lay such as 50mm across the roof timbers and then re-apply plasterboard.

I have insulated some of the bedroom walls as i've been getting around to decorating by battening off the walls and insulation with 25mm Celotex before plasterboarding and skimming over.

Here we have gone back to the stonework in places and reframed. As mentioned above 50mm between framing and then 25mm over the framing (removed cold spots).

There is no getting away from it being messy (we were dealing with woodworm infested lath and plaster) or expensive but worth it in the long run. Yes you will also lose room space as a result.

You can get "cheap" PIR from such as Seconds & Co.

Yes PV will act to keep some of the direct heat at bay.

Regards

Richard
 
Nope. I'm talking about the companies that extract the gas/oil. From us they'd get the same profit as before as their extraction costs are the same. Any surplus they extract above what we take they can sell at World Price elsewhere.

I am not sure how practical that is given the size and composition of the wholesale energy markets and how you would effectively be restricted to UK based companies.

Also I haven't done the maths but I strongly suspect that rather than a surplus, if you took all of the production from Shell, BP, etc. you'd be looking at buying more from foreign suppliers. I think there are also issues surrounding the type of oil and gas as well.
 
^^ The majority of shares in Shell, BP are almost certainly owned by non-UK nationals. Their production is not in the UK. They would not be 'UK based' for long if measures like that were implemented.
 
^^ The majority of shares in Shell, BP are almost certainly owned by non-UK nationals. Their production is not in the UK. They would not be 'UK based' for long if measures like that were implemented.
Though a lot of U.K. people will have pension funds which include some Shell & BP stock.
 


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