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Focal Sopra 1 amplification...

Darren L said:
That's the only downside to good revealing hifi systems, they tend to reveal a less than good recording, I've personally never used any streaming systems so I've no opinions on how good or bad they are. Most of the time it's poor quality mastering, compression or 'brick walling' that becomes the issue. The upside is a good revealing system will excell with a good recording that's been well mastered. Tom Fletcher, (RIP) the designer of NA turntables described his turntables when set up with a quality tonearm and cartridge as a 'time machine' transporting the listener back to the event of the recording and Tom really new his stuff, he was quite involved with supporting and helping up and coming jazz artists in New Orleans.
It's something I've come to except that all recordings are not equal and far from it, if for instance I wanted to listen to some 70's punk I'll listen in the garage on an old Denon midi system and pair of old Celestion speakers, loud , fun and doesn't need to be hifi quality.
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Yes, agree that there can be some positive aspects to the Sopra's transparency but when it prompts you to actively seek better produced recordings it becomes a limiting factor for me. Conversely, with the two pairs of Sonus fabers I still have you simply choose and listen and you get a smooth, reliable delivery. Anyway, the Sopras really aren't that bad...
 
Tom60300 said:
Yes, agree that there can be some positive aspects to the Sopra's transparency but when it prompts you to actively seek better produced recordings it becomes a limiting factor for me. Conversely, with the two pairs of Sonus fabers I still have you simply choose and listen and you get a smooth, reliable delivery. Anyway, the Sopras really aren't that bad...
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I've never had or heard a pair of Focal speakers, my comments was just more a general observation.
I use SF speakers myself and that's been my preference for over 25 years now, though they sound great generally the system as a whole has always been revealing enough to show the difference in various recording and mastering qualities.
 
Tom60300 said:
Thanks for the wise words. I typically exaggerate things a bit but frankly this evening while listening to Tool and Fleetwood Mac the Sopra 1s really do defend themselves quite well. Very enjoyable listen with no DSP, no EQ and no plugged ports. The problem occurs with Roon/Qobuz when you surf and try new music. Some recordings are so incredibly poorly balanced that they sound like a drunken idiot did the mixing. I like all sorts of music but when the recording is bad the Sopras let you know immediately. They are very transparent indeed.

Another interesting point,for,the Sopras: they really draw you into the music. With some speakers or systems you have to focus and listen attentively. The Sopras have this quality where they come at you with the subtleties and draw you in. That's a good point. I would also say that the Beryllium tweeter is excellent. I was afraid of sibilance, brightness and general over-eagerness but no, they have a very refined and light touch, even with an undisciplined unruly snotty-nosed brat Naim amplifier powering them. So yeah, for all those that claim their electronics, loudspeakers, room acoustics and listening experience are all reliably performing at 100%...allow me to have my doubts!
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The Sopras, like a lot of the higher end Focal stuff, don’t take any prisoners and can be ruthless in revealing shortcomings. But, as you see, when the magic happens, they’re rather special. I’ll be very interested in your thoughts after you’ve auditioned the Accuphase - that, to my mind, really can be a synergistic combination.

Beyond that, it does seem to me that the room is a big part of the problem, so hopefully the treatment will help.

One other thought though: the speaker stand might be part of the problem. The Focal stands do big up the bass a bit (and, as you’ve found, that really isn’t necessary, and not always helpful). A lightweight stand, and in particular I’ve used the MusicWorks acrylic ones to great effect, may tighten up the bottom end and improve overall agility to boot. It’s really worth a try. Not sure where you’re based, but if anywhere near Manchester, I could lend you mine for a week or two.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
The Sopras, like a lot of the higher end Focal stuff, don’t take any prisoners and can be ruthless in revealing shortcomings. But, as you see, when the magic happens, they’re rather special. I’ll be very interested in your thoughts after you’ve auditioned the Accuphase - that, to my mind, really can be a synergistic combination.

Beyond that, it does seem to me that the room is a big part of the problem, so hopefully the treatment will help.

One other thought though: the speaker stand might be part of the problem. The Focal stands do big up the bass a bit (and, as you’ve found, that really isn’t necessary, and not always helpful). A lightweight stand, and in particular I’ve used the MusicWorks acrylic ones to great effect, may tighten up the bottom end and improve overall agility to boot. It’s really worth a try. Not sure where you’re based, but if anywhere near Manchester, I could lend you mine for a week or two.
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Hi there, thanks for the offer on the stands, very kind of you. I'm across the Channel so that would be difficult...I do like the Focal stands as they're solid, good-looking with the glass base and adjustable spikes and especially the 3 screws that anchor the speakers to the stand's upper base plate. Haven't really considered alternative stands but I do recall a hifi press review where it was mentioned that alternative stands were a good option. If this is the case, I wonder why Focal didn't get their stands right...? As I mentioned and as you've noted, next steps are GIK Acoustics treatment for mid-August and higher-level amplifier auditions as soon as possible.

I'm fully aware that an amplifier change will not be a miracle solution and that isn't my goal or expectation.
I'd like to find an amplifier that allows me some control (tone, balance) when required, is super well-built and could pass as an "heirloom" piece for my already grown kids (when the time comes...). May be a bit silly all that but that's where my thinking is.
Secondly, although the Naim equipment has been fun and does perform well most of the time, I'd like to relieve myself of the recapping requirement and perhaps I've grown weary of the Naim sound signature.

Other hand-me-downs I currently have running are Jadis and Sonus faber which really make great music. After tube rolling and obsessing for more than 25 years, I want to put solid state amplification behind the Sopras. Thanks and brgds.
 
Darren L said:
I've never had or heard a pair of Focal speakers, my comments was just more a general observation.
I use SF speakers myself and that's been my preference for over 25 years now, though they sound great generally the system as a whole has always been revealing enough to show the difference in various recording and mastering qualities.
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Hi Darren, you know SF has been for me a saving grace over the decades. Still have a pair of Concertinos with original wood and iron stands and a pair of Cremona Auditor Ms in graphite with SF stands as well. I think of them almost as organic whereas other speakers are mechanical or clinical. I often wonder what Franco Serblin would be doing now if he hadn't passed away.
 
Tom60300 said:
Hi Darren, you know SF has been for me a saving grace over the decades. Still have a pair of Concertinos with original wood and iron stands and a pair of Cremona Auditor Ms in graphite with SF stands as well. I think of them almost as organic whereas other speakers are mechanical or clinical. I often wonder what Franco Serblin would be doing now if he hadn't passed away.
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Two great pairs of speakers, I'm sure he'd still be designing speakers with his signature 'beguiling ' midrange, Diapason come a close second for me but Franco's designs have always been my favourite.
 
Tom60300 said:
Hello all,
Latest installment of a never-ending catastrophic speaker fail in my room is the beautiful pair of Carrera white Sopra 1 with matching stands. Yes, they look nice. The only problem is, theoretically, one is supposed to listen to them as well.

For a pair of speakers whose main criticism is lacking the lowest octave, as they start dropping dBs down from 47hz, these little guys boom, rattle, grunt, rumble, erupt and resonate the holy dickens in my room threatening to remove the roof from the walls. In other words, they're useless. Amplification is Naim, but on other amps they behave similarly. In a 4mx8m room they are 41cm from the rear wall. That is much too close. Focal calculated the Sopra 1, atleast they told me so, to retain bass reflex performance and tonal balance with supplied foam speaker bungs. They don't work either. Just for the fun of it, here's a handy list of speakers that do not work in my room: Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor M, PMC 25.22i and now the Focal Sopra 1. I am pretty convinced that it is impossible to have a hifi system in this room without DSP or expensive and unauthorized room treatment. Atleast I can be proud of single-handedly supporting the loudspeaker industry.

FWIW, does anyone have any experience with these speakers or have a suggestion on alternative amplification? I've searched and researched this question for far too long and still have no solution.

Lastly, in your view, would you think it humorous and worthwhile if I were to take them out in the garden and set them on fire while filming it to AC/DC's "Highway to Hell" and post it to YouTube? I've been considering that for a while now.

Thanks and best regards.
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Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
The Sopras, like a lot of the higher end Focal stuff, don’t take any prisoners and can be ruthless in revealing shortcomings. But, as you see, when the magic happens, they’re rather special. I’ll be very interested in your thoughts after you’ve auditioned the Accuphase - that, to my mind, really can be a synergistic combination.

Beyond that, it does seem to me that the room is a big part of the problem, so hopefully the treatment will help.

One other thought though: the speaker stand might be part of the problem. The Focal stands do big up the bass a bit (and, as you’ve found, that really isn’t necessary, and not always helpful). A lightweight stand, and in particular I’ve used the MusicWorks acrylic ones to great effect, may tighten up the bottom end and improve overall agility to boot. It’s really worth a try. Not sure where you’re based, but if anywhere near Manchester, I could lend you mine for a week or two.
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Hello again,
Have an opportunity for an E-480 which I demoed but not on my Focal Sopra 1s. All indications however seem to show that the Accuphase integrateds and the Focal Sopras can and do associate well together. Would this be your opinion as well?
The E-480 would replace a Naim SN2 which is currently in place. I most likely will not be able to home demo the speakers and amp together so I'm hoping that the general level of compatibility between the two brands would allow me to avoid making a mistake. What would your thoughts be? Thanks.
 
Yes, I have the E-480 and it’s a superb amp. I’d be utterly astonished if you didn’t find it gelled brilliantly with the Sopras. Do try to experiment with the stands, too, if you can.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Yes, I have the E-480 and it’s a superb amp. I’d be utterly astonished if you didn’t find it gelled brilliantly with the Sopras. Do try to experiment with the stands, too, if you can.
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Very kind of you to respond. Does indeed sound promising. As an update to my room acoustics issues, I was able to acquire and install 8 GIK panels in the living room. The challenge was to do this and preserve domestic harmony and it was relatively successful on that front. In fact, they don't look bad at all. The acoustic result is undeniable. It isn't night and day of course as I have only treated a small percentage of my listening space but the imaging and soundstage is clearly more refined and focused. Lower frequencies are obviously still there in abundance but the note decay times have been reduced. Much less overhang than before. I would say that I'm 90% satisfied with the room treatments.

One question on the E-480: are you connecting your source by balanced or unbalanced cables? My understanding is that Accuphase may sound better with balanced connections. My current source is a Naim ND5XS2 which is fed by fibre optic ethernet connection and controlled by Roon. I feel that it works and performs quite well. If I go for the E-480, I would have to use the RCA connection on both units and hope that this isn't too penalizing. I also understand that I could add the DAC 60 option card to the amp and feed it with a digital connection from the Naim streamer.

Any thoughts/experience on that subject?
Thank you very much.
 
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Yeah well, lord forgive me but there is a brand new Accuphase E-480 running in right now in my rack. It's a beautiful piece and sounds distinctly different from the venerable Supernait 2...
Hopefully run-in period will smooth things out as my brain adjusts to the new sound. Not entirely unhappy for the moment!
 
Any updates to share?

Tom60300 said:
Yeah well, lord forgive me but there is a brand new Accuphase E-480 running in right now in my rack. It's a beautiful piece and sounds distinctly different from the venerable Supernait 2...
Hopefully run-in period will smooth things out as my brain adjusts to the new sound. Not entirely unhappy for the moment!
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unit said:
Any updates to share?
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Yes, sure. The E-480 lasted a month before being returned. It's well built for sure but much too thin and bright with a very irritating high-frequency response that was absolutely incompatible with the Focal beryllium tweeter. Didn't really make music.

Have settled for a few months now on a new Luxman L-590AXII. They are currently discontinued. The Class A topology is much more adapted to the Focals and I can finally relax now and, strangely enough, actually listen to music.

Next best was a McIntosh MA352 hybrid design but it was a bit sterile and unexceptional. The absolute worst was Naim. From the SN3 with and without HCDR all the way to 282+250+HCDR...Naim and Focal together are a heretical mistake, an ill-fated marketing ploy and generally an unabashed outright lie.

I would imagine that the two Accuphase Class A amplifiers currently in their catalog would also perform as well or better than the Luxman. Kinda funny to come full circle back to the Japanese amplifiers after so many years...
 
Amazing to hear how the luxman has been better than the accuphase .good to know

I guess also the tone controls give a bit of flexibility with focal too
 
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