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Focal Sopra 1 amplification...

Mr Underhill said:
Hi Phil,

This is a popular view BUT I have heard the two brands sounding superb. A friend has a 500 system into the Focal 1028be and it is one of the best systems I know.

He has stuck with the 1028s having auditioned at length the Focal 2 & 3. In his room he didn't think they were an holistic improvement.

M
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ah thats great to know , i am a huge fan of the 1028be having owned one . the chap i sold it too has just bought another and finds gato amps very good with it
 
Tom60300 said:
Hello,
Here in my third-world country there are gobs of these boat anchor substitutes for sale and nobody is buying them. The house is straight forward enough but like any room, there are bass frequency resonances and peaks to manage, my problems are at 42 and 64hz primarily.

I've heard the Sopra 1s at length and AT HOME on a demo Unison Research Unico 90 (hybrid design with 6 driver tubes in the preamp stage) and it did indeed sounded good, meaning satisfactory enough to where I'd shut my big mouth and get on with the music.
BUT...the SN2 with HiCapDR sounded fine also. I tortured the system with all kinds of tracks (Roon, Core library and Qobuz). Bass was strong, indeed quite present but not overwhelming. 2 days later all I hear is BASS, BASS and more BASS. Not sure how this came about as all system parameters have remained unchanged. I think I have offended the HiFi gods in another life or something.

If you know the Sopra 1s, Focal has provided foam bungs or plugs for the rear port. I called them in Saint Etienne and asked WTF?
They replied that the speaker's cabinet volume for the mid/bass driver will tolerate the bung's effects without altering the overall tonal balance of the speaker. Logically enough, they were intended for my very situation. Currently they are installed as I write and listen. They do function but my ears tell me they "thin out" the tonal balance ever so slightly. It all depends on the recording of course and the period during which the recording was made, intended for vinyl or cd, etc. 1nd whether the sound engineers were on drugs at the time.

Some of my favorite 80s music sounds like death through streaming services. This was much less evident when I was spinning discs.

Anyway, I'm trying to relativise the matter and be happy that I don't suffer from an advanced case of leprosy. That said music is damn important for me, as it is for most of us, so mucking about with a system that created more frustration than joy is a massive dilemma. Brgds.
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Frustrating but I love your morbid writing.
As you use Roon, have you considered trying its DSP tools, you can enter negative notches at 42 and 64 hz. I have tried these tools for other purposes and decided it's better w/o, but I also like closed box speakers.
I would also try relocating them, speaker positioning is the single most important factor, esp when you struggle with a room.
Omer.
 
omers said:
Frustrating but I love your morbid writing.
As you use Roon, have you considered trying its DSP tools, you can enter negative notches at 42 and 64 hz. I have tried these tools for other purposes and decided it's better w/o, but I also like closed box speakers.
I would also try relocating them, speaker positioning is the single most important factor, esp when you struggle with a room.
Omer.
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Thanks for the suggestions, will continue to experiment but things aren't looking good at all for the moment.
Brgds.
 
PerF said:
Have you considered other speakers ?
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Yes, that's basically all I do is continually change speakers. The Sopras are simply the latest POS monstrosities that do not work in my room. I must now take 9 months to a year to sell these and then buy another pair of speakers that won't work. It's a never ending cycle of spending and losing money for nothing.
 
I have just stumbled on this post and thought I would step in. I currently have focal sopra 1s’s also in white and have the same issue. My system is also naim instead of the focal stands I ordered up some stands from the German guys that make the stands for the kii three and Dutch and Dutch then filled them up with atterbites. The speakers and stands are now around 60kgs each so very solid and very stable that helps so much with controlling the bass making them fast and tight.
I switched from Naim A5 to Linn k20 as I found it to be smoother and not so bright.
Also going from a nap200 to a nap250dr was a massive mistake as the 250 is to aggressive, the 200 and 300 are to my ears a tad mellow and that what these speakers need.
I also added a ndac to my ndx2 which added warmth and control.
I once owned Diablos but just found them to bright the sopras however sound just right to me but need very careful setting up. Mine are in a bay window so that helps with adding a bit of extra bass but also why the stands are so important to get right.
Just avoid 250s.
 
dingding said:
I have just stumbled on this post and thought I would step in. I currently have focal sopra 1s’s also in white and have the same issue. My system is also naim instead of the focal stands I ordered up some stands from the German guys that make the stands for the kii three and Dutch and Dutch then filled them up with atterbites. The speakers and stands are now around 60kgs each so very solid and very stable that helps so much with controlling the bass making them fast and tight.
I switched from Naim A5 to Linn k20 as I found it to be smoother and not so bright.
Also going from a nap200 to a nap250dr was a massive mistake as the 250 is to aggressive, the 200 and 300 are to my ears a tad mellow and that what these speakers need.
I also added a ndac to my ndx2 which added warmth and control.
I once owned Diablos but just found them to bright the sopras however sound just right to me but need very careful setting up. Mine are in a bay window so that helps with adding a bit of extra bass but also why the stands are so important to get right.
Just avoid 250s.
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Hi dingding,
Thanks for your reply. I'm convinced that these speakers are well made and otherwise excellent performers under the right conditions. I have some room treatment from GIK coming in August and will test, measure and re-assess then. I needed to do the room treatment anyway as it should be benefit any future systems in that particular room. It is strange that the listening room, as an important component of every system, is often neglected, misunderstood or summarily dismissed. Anyway, Naim and Focal, I repeat my opinion, are a business marriage and under no circumstances whatsoever are they to be considered as synergistic brands.That is a blatant lie and a reprehensible, dishonest business practice for them to claim such nonsense. Had a young up and coming Focal guy on the phone here in France and he actually heavily insisted that my system would be a guaranteed path to audio nirvana. What a massive joke. Quite offensive to be taken for a fool.
Finally, as I acquired these speakers through a trade and since I've been wanting to get rid of the Naim electronics for quite some time now, the time to jump ship is nigh I think. Next week I will hear Accuphase and McIntosh integrateds on these speakers just to see what the difference sounds like. Would be interested in your journey as well. Brgds.
 
I did run with a very late serviced Linn klout for a time and that took the edge of them for me. I fancy trying out a bit of Quad to see what it would sound like, it’s a bit of a scratch I need to itch. I also run Spendor speakers from time to time and they do work well with Naim. The focals are the other extreme but with quad being referred to as pipe and slippers gear i was thinking it maybe an interesting combination. I have no idea on how the new quad kit stacks up these days. Im to heavily invested in my Naim front end to change now but the quad amps are relatively cheap compared to what Naim charge these days.
 
For what it's worth, room correction via Dirac was hit and miss with me, for one of the reasons you mention... Needing to change it up depending on what music you are listening to.

What I've found is the best compromise for me is measuring the effect of the room on my speakers. This showed I had a boost at 49Hz of around +9db. I just dialed that frequency down -9db using Roon's parametric EQ. This way you still get the 'flavour' of the speaker without the room correction (Dirac, in your case) trying to voice the speaker to its house curve.

I have a small room and am using JBL L100 Classic speakers (12 inch woofer). Believe me, without the EQ these would totally not work in this room... Along with every other speaker I've ever tried. When you have room modes... You have room modes. No changing of speakers is really ever going to fix that.
 
Well if you have a particular room mode, and you can get rid of it with EQ, I think that’s a very good option. I’d bet that the majority of rooms all have these nasty room modes at some frequency. Most of us don’t live in an anechoic room.
 
Hi Tom, I have a similar sized room (actually slightly bigger, and with high ceilings) with rather springy floorboards, and had a lot of issues with speakers. My old Linn Kans just wouldn't fill the room (even with a Yamaha AS-3000 amp) but larger speakers just excited the room resonances and/or shook the floor boards. On set of Meridian active speakers gave rather good sound but only in the room underneath the listening room!

Three things helped in the end. Firstly, I moved the speakers they were firing across the (4.5m) width of the room rather than down the 8m length. This was partly because the floor boards were much more rigid in that direction, but the room acoustics changed a lot as well and there were no side reflections as the speakers are quite far from the corners.

Secondly I found a pair of speakers with the port underneath the speaker not at the front or back - these are ART Neo 8's (but the ART Alnico range have the same layout). See here for a review http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/art-alnico-8-floorstanding-loudspeakers/. Because of the layout they are rather insensitive to positioning and can be used quite close to the wall which also helps domestic arrangements. They are fairly efficient and I haven't felt the need to change my old Meridian 103D power amp even though I've listened to a number of more modern ones.

Finally I put an underlay beneath the large Persian rug on the floor of the room - this was recommended as a way of protecting the rug by the guy that cleaned it a year or so back, but it also had the effect of reducing reflections and the springy floor.

Hope some of this helps. :)
 
Tom60300 said:
Yes, that's basically all I do is continually change speakers.
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Doesn't that make you think that it's not necessarily a speaker issue? And indeed it maybe a room issue as has been stated.
If you like Standmounts I'd recommend trying some Wilson Benesch speakers, these have a port that fires down rather forward or rearward, that may help.
Could you rearrange your layout of the room to give more room for speaker placement.

I think the correct answer may be in your earlier post .

Tom60300 said:
Funny thing is the last system that worked in this room, some 20 odd years ago, was a gigantic pair of Martin Logan Quest Z powered by Jadis DA-7 and JPL amplification with a Wadia 21 as CD player. That was real music with zero problems...except for the refrigerator sized speakers and the heat of 12 KT90s.

.
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The above would suggest if one speaker and amps combo works then it's not a room issue but something else. I'd get shot of the Naim and focal combo and perhaps make a move back to valves and ESLs or either.

BTW the SF Cremonas will not sound very good with placement that close to the rear wall nor will any SF IME, they require free space to work as they were designed, especially any of the Serblin designed models. The later models in the Olympica range may work with their side firing reflex port but I wouldn't partner SF with Naim, in fact I'd wouldn't buy Naim at all.
 
Paul Mc said:
Did the OP demo these very expensive speakers at home before purchase?
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Yes, the OP did demo them at home and made a trade to acquire them. They may have an expensive retail price bit nobody on the face of this Earth has ever paid anything near that price for new. I had no need for them but do like their looks and theoretically, they have a reputation of being somewhat decent loudspeakers. Now the challenge is to make them work properly in less than ideal conditions. First irrefutable truth: Naim and Focal do not work together. Second step: always wanted to have room acoustic treatments. They should be delivered end of August. Will install them, re-measure with REW and compare and the re- assess next course of action.
 
Darren L said:
Doesn't that make you think that it's not necessarily a speaker issue? And indeed it maybe a room issue as has been stated.
If you like Standmounts I'd recommend trying some Wilson Benesch speakers, these have a port that fires down rather forward or rearward, that may help.
Could you rearrange your layout of the room to give more room for speaker placement.

I think the correct answer may be in your earlier post .



The above would suggest if one speaker and amps combo works then it's not a room issue but something else. I'd get shot of the Naim and focal combo and perhaps make a move back to valves and ESLs or either.

BTW the SF Cremonas will not sound very good with placement that close to the rear wall nor will any SF IME, they require free space to work as they were designed, especially any of the Serblin designed models. The later models in the Olympica range may work with their side firing reflex port but I wouldn't partner SF with Naim, in fact I'd wouldn't buy Naim at all.
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Thanks for the wise words. I typically exaggerate things a bit but frankly this evening while listening to Tool and Fleetwood Mac the Sopra 1s really do defend themselves quite well. Very enjoyable listen with no DSP, no EQ and no plugged ports. The problem occurs with Roon/Qobuz when you surf and try new music. Some recordings are so incredibly poorly balanced that they sound like a drunken idiot did the mixing. I like all sorts of music but when the recording is bad the Sopras let you know immediately. They are very transparent indeed.

Another interesting point,for,the Sopras: they really draw you into the music. With some speakers or systems you have to focus and listen attentively. The Sopras have this quality where they come at you with the subtleties and draw you in. That's a good point. I would also say that the Beryllium tweeter is excellent. I was afraid of sibilance, brightness and general over-eagerness but no, they have a very refined and light touch, even with an undisciplined unruly snotty-nosed brat Naim amplifier powering them. So yeah, for all those that claim their electronics, loudspeakers, room acoustics and listening experience are all reliably performing at 100%...allow me to have my doubts!
 
Tom60300 said:
Thanks for the wise words. I typically exaggerate things a bit but frankly this evening while listening to Tool and Fleetwood Mac the Sopra 1s really do defend themselves quite well. Very enjoyable listen with no DSP, no EQ and no plugged ports. The problem occurs with Roon/Qobuz when you surf and try new music. Some recordings are so incredibly poorly balanced that they sound like a drunken idiot did the mixing. I like all sorts of music but when the recording is bad the Sopras let you know immediately. They are very transparent indeed.

Another interesting point,for,the Sopras: they really draw you into the music. With some speakers or systems you have to focus and listen attentively. The Sopras have this quality where they come at you with the subtleties and draw you in. That's a good point. I would also say that the Beryllium tweeter is excellent. I was afraid of sibilance, brightness and general over-eagerness but no, they have a very refined and light touch, even with an undisciplined unruly snotty-nosed brat Naim amplifier powering them. So yeah, for all those that claim their electronics, loudspeakers, room acoustics and listening experience are all reliably performing at 100%...allow me to have my doubts!
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That's the only downside to good revealing hifi systems, they tend to reveal a less than good recording, I've personally never used any streaming systems so I've no opinions on how good or bad they are. Most of the time it's poor quality mastering, compression or 'brick walling' that becomes the issue. The upside is a good revealing system will excell with a good recording that's been well mastered. Tom Fletcher, (RIP) the designer of NA turntables described his turntables when set up with a quality tonearm and cartridge as a 'time machine' transporting the listener back to the event of the recording and Tom really new his stuff, he was quite involved with supporting and helping up and coming jazz artists in New Orleans.
It's something I've come to except that all recordings are not equal and far from it, if for instance I wanted to listen to some 70's punk I'll listen in the garage on an old Denon midi system and pair of old Celestion speakers, loud , fun and doesn't need to be hifi quality.
 
Played with 250dr and sopra 2 good enough in a big room.
Depending on your amperage and backing wall I’d also seriously suggest Naim SL2 speakers. They can be a bit of a challenge to setup and really do need at least 135 amps to start to get them to sing. But when they do sing wow way above the price range you brought them for. Good luck
 
MrPinkEyes said:
Played with 250dr and sopra 2 good enough in a big room.
Depending on your amperage and backing wall I’d also seriously suggest Naim SL2 speakers. They can be a bit of a challenge to setup and really do need at least 135 amps to start to get them to sing. But when they do sing wow way above the price range you brought them for. Good luck
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Thanks but I'd rather have a 6 month series of weekly barbed-wire enemas than give more money to the Naim cult. I agree that their equipment can propose some positive aspects but on the whole there is much greater sound quality available for less money, headache and quirky weirdness. A used pair of discontinued and finicky Naim speakers is totally out of the question even if they might be made to sound good. I also think they are butt ugly but that is just my opinion.
Whatever the speaker brand, they all (should) produce energy below 200hz where probably 90% of all room related problems originate. The laws pf physics governing sound wave propagation in confined spaces strictly does not care about speaker brand or method of bass reproduction. It will all bounce around, accumulate, produce nulls, peaks and modes resulting from the dimensions and design of the listening space.

So, at this point, my next objective is to attempt to better control my room with some nice-looking GIK panels and bass-traps before making any another moves. I believe a better behaving room will benefit any and all future electronics I may end up with. Brgds.
 
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