FM Radio
- Thread starter Man in a van
- Start date
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Nobody enjoys their FM tuner more than I, but it's the failure of digital radio in the casual listening market that keeps FM alive. Choice of stations is very over rated, as they have found out. Even more so, when they are processed to the point of being unlistenable even on a portable - as some DAB stations are.
Richard Lines
pfm Member
Good Morning All,
As I was typing my earlier comment I'm stuck at a Rouen hotel quarantining before joining a boat listening to Radio 2 via the internet/ Bluetooth/ Sony WF-1000XM3.........
I do still have an external FM aerial and it is still connected to a socket in the Hi-FI Room - just no tuner anymore.
Regards
Richard
As I was typing my earlier comment I'm stuck at a Rouen hotel quarantining before joining a boat listening to Radio 2 via the internet/ Bluetooth/ Sony WF-1000XM3.........
I do still have an external FM aerial and it is still connected to a socket in the Hi-FI Room - just no tuner anymore.
Regards
Richard
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Not surprised at 60 miles; you needed a R.S.Galaxie (G17 at least), and that's if you have reasonable height and geography. My 6 element manages 9 miles to the transmitter with good geography but I'd be happier with a G17, even if my chimney wouldn't !
I remember those om my Pioneer tuner in the early 70s (with an 8 element high up, too). Think it's caused by signal reflection but I've never experienced it since with any tuner or receiver.
The Bedouin move on, Richard, but don't necessarily improve their lot. Vinyl has moved up from a sales/interest p.o.v.. Maybe CD in a decade or so? I've given up waiting for the resurgence of wax cylinders and I think 78s are as unlikely as the wind-up gramophone. Even bicycles have come round again in a cyclic fashion.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
I continue to doubt the claims made for the large 'Galaxie' arrays. Indeed, the figures seem to be inconsistent.
If you're well beyond 20 miles then it becomes a matter of weather-luck and topology how well you will do with any antenna. And the figures for gain, etc, claimed for the RS antennas look like nonsense to me.
About 5 elements are as much as makes sense with a basic 'Yagi'. Beyond that your best bet would probably be to harness two in parallel rather than add elements to a single one. But you'd still get results that depend on topology and weather. No birds nest of client-impressing metalwork would change that.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
That aerial needs a tuner Richard. I got the Creek for £20. You know you want to…
SteveG
pfm Member
I hope they do as DAB reception is very patchy when driving about in the North of Scotland and FM is a lot better.
Nic Robinson
Moderator
Same in our bit of...Sussex. So useless!
Nic Robinson
Moderator
Although in that case, the originals aren't heavily compressed in terms of both data and dynamics. Consequently some of my best sounding classical LPs were recorded digitally.
George J
Herefordshire member
I personally have no problem with direct digital recording and replay at CD standard. If you choose to make an LP from such a recording, done properly without crippling dynamic compression from a first quality issue master it is very likely to bring great pleasure.
It is all about implementation - the skill and production values of the entire recording team.
Signals for VHF/FM have been sent to the analogue transmitters in digital for decades. That is fine, and possibly even better than very long landlines that were used before.
What does often bug me with digital is the use of lossy digital compression systems that work on the basis of reducing the data stream by removing what the algorithm designers think that you cannot hear. If these designers were right, we would not be able to tell the difference between lossy digital and digitally un-compressed data formats. The things is that some people can hear it, so they have cut too much!
I personally find that 320 mbs diitgal radio sends - in isolation - sound pretty splendid! Only when confronted with an immediate comparison with good VHF/FM do I realise that I am happy with my inertia, remaining a VHF/FM user.
Is VHF perfect? No, it has of necessity to have a maximum output signal from the transmitters, which does involve some dynamic limiting on occasion. Digital also can be over-modulated, and that is simply horrible, but the dynamic range is much wider. So engineering a good VHF broadcast is a skilled job, comparatively. Done well it is rather fine. Natural sounding. In reality, skilfully managed dynamic compression is a huge bonus for domestic listening. It means that your neighbours don't hate you when the orchestra is playing tuta forza! Also the domestic listening setting typically has a higher ambient noise level than a good concert venue, so that the quietest music is still apparent and clear domestically on broadcasts of very large scale performances.
I will be 69 in 2030, so by then [assuming I am still about] I am prepared to guess that I will not be worried about whether VHF carries on, but for now I am very happy to see it continuing for at least eight years.
Best wishes from George
The greater the number of elements, the greater the gain, but also the narrower the angle of detection. Anything over 20 elements with a Galaxy and you are going to need an aerial rotator.
Only on a four element pointing at Crystal Palace 65 miles away but i have a good line of sight and get full signal strength on my Denon.
Remember putting the aerial up as high as possible with first wife shouting up the readings from an Akai receiver.
I don't have a good head for heights but am tight.
Remember putting the aerial up as high as possible with first wife shouting up the readings from an Akai receiver.
I don't have a good head for heights but am tight.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
However the rise in gain for a Yagi or LP when you add one more element falls away quite distinctly as you go above 3 or 4. That also means the beamwidth ceases to reduce so quickly. But in the end means it makes more sense to harness a couple of antennas with fewer elements if you need more gain.
Reality, though, is that if you need that much, then the signal will probably vary a lot with the propagation conditions.
And as before, I tend to regard a lot of the 'elements' in a Galaxie as being eye candy. Adds to problems like wind load shifting it about - not good if you need a needle beam for it to work, either.
TBH the big problem is the lack of knowledgeable FM antenna riggers around most of the UK. More money in TV and Sat dishes, and often simpler.
MUTTY1
Waste of bandwidth
But the replay system still imposes itself? I think it the same with tuners.
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
George, I am already 71 but I hope to be listening to music on R3 FM for a few years yet - potentially good concert tonight BTW.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Like most things in life and hifi, the law of diminishing returns sets in. I agree about >20 elements as Ron installed a h/d rotator with my Galaxie 23 with miles of cabling (big house!). Despite being well above sea level (in Ramsgate) and on 12' mast 50+' above road level, I found it quite tricky to latch onto those French and Belgian stations with my then NAT 101. I had high hopes but in the end simply tuned into British stations.
Unfortunately, the 60s house I moved to was not man enough to support the G23 and I sold it. Still got two h/d rotators in my loft though; any takers?
davidsrsb
pfm Member
Big Yagis are naturally rather narrow band, ideal for amateur radio. FM is 88-108 MHz, so big arrays are always compromises and don't give the gain boost over my old Tandy 6 element that you would expect at first glance. Anything claiming a gain of more than 10dB should be taken with a pinch of salt
Martyn Miles
pfm Member
I do still have an external DAB aerial and it is still connected to a socket in the Hi-Fi Room - just no tuner anymore.
Regards
Martyn.
darkstarcrashes
pfm Member
Living about 400 yds from the Beckley transmitter I find a metre of co-ax is all I need as an FM aerial.