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Finding Vinyl hard to fall in love with

Discussion in 'audio' started by snaphappybob, May 22, 2023.

  1. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    Actually that idea prolly pips mine/ lordmortlock's. It's just that there are usually many more TD-160's around, & likely a bit cheaper.

    The common feature, as cobblers hints is a -suspended deck- design, which is what you need on the list 1st OP.
  2. RoA

    RoA pfm Member

    I guess it really depends on how far one wants to take it. My brother had a Project Carbon for years and likes it. It's in a decent system but he is no audiophile according to himself. Just enjoys his music.

    I guess, at lower levels vinyl sounds like most imagine it to sound. The more money spent the closer it gets to good digital. Funny that.

    What I have absolutely no doubt about it is that the format is expensive and everything around it is one big faff. I recently bought a TT (s/h) partly because my partner is hooked on it since Bristol (!) and partly for aesthetic reasons ... . I like the sleek and iconic shape of Rega. Since then we bought a few Tone Poet records and other paraphernalia ie. inner & outer sleeves, stylus cleaning stuff etc (and a Michell Counterweight, again, because it looks good ... it makes no difference).

    Vinyl is a money pit unless its done for investment and even then, its a black, dusty hole, initially at least.

    I still mainly stream and would advise anyone contemplating starting a record collection to do the same or stick to CD's unless you do it because you think it looks good in the living room (which it does), have a lot of spare space and deep pockets.
    Miss Ariel likes this.
  3. cobbers

    cobbers pfm Member

    I've had a standard 160 and a Super - and a 11X900 - the Sytemdek is every bit as good and there's one on T'bay at the mo' with an RB250 and AT440 for the bargain price of £295.
    domfjbrown and guydarryl like this.
  4. dalryc

    dalryc pfm Member

    There was a marginal difference between the Orbe and the Rega but much smaller than I was expecting for the cost.

    It was setup, new, on site, by a local Michell dealer.
  5. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    The difference should be more than 'marginal' at least IME , even swapping the tonearm and cartridge straight off the Rega and onto the Orbe should bring a distinct if not vast improvement, something is definitely a miss.
    Unfortunately just because an analogue front end is set up by an authorised dealer is no guarantee of quality work.
    domfjbrown and kernow like this.
  6. dalryc

    dalryc pfm Member

    Maybe it's just my preference - or it's just being analogue.

    I did audition a RP8 against a Gyrodec and easily preferred the sound of the Gyrodec - verified by two other attending friends.

    I've also just done a hearing test and it's surprisingly good for my age.
    NickofWimbledon and Mr Pig like this.
  7. kensalriser

    kensalriser pfm Member

    If you're going to fall in love with anything, it should be the music. Vinyl is just a format.
  8. CTank

    CTank pfm Member

    I recently got a turntable, after years without one. It’s lovely to be able to listen to the 500 records I own, some of which aren’t on any streaming platforms, or available on CD.

    Would I bother, if I didn’t already own the records from my youth? No chance, the price of vinyl today is comical. If you’re trying to force your self to like your turntable, just give up. You’ll save yourself a fortune!
  9. crimsondonkey

    crimsondonkey pfm Member

    I get asked all the time by people who know I have an audio set up, what kind of entry level vinyl set up they ought to buy. My usual answer is, if you don't have a decent amount of records already then maybe don't bother.

    Some push back and say they want the feel and the posturing of being able to put a record on. Then I typically try to demonstrate they the sound they can get from a modest digital streaming system and roughly how much it will cost to equal that with vinyl and then do a quick rough calc of how much their favourite 50 or so albums are going to cost on top. That usually ends the discussion.

    Completely different story if you've already got a good amount of pre-digital OG records that you're looking to get a good sound out of.
    Miss Ariel and kernow like this.
  10. kernow

    kernow pfm Member

    I've had a guy with a crossley buying new HMV releases for £30 harping on at me how vinyl sounds so much better. Ok maate I guess you don't have a £400 cleaning machine, £100 scales and £100 stylus cleaner but I'm gonna keep eye rolling
    JezmondTutu likes this.
  11. popol_vuh

    popol_vuh pfm Member

    Wow, that's really strange. Because I upgraded from a P3-24 with TT PSU, RB301 with tecnoweight and groovetracer subplatter (which has truly raised its performance to a new level) to a Gyrodec onto which I put RB250 and transferred the cartridge from Rega (Denon dl-110) and the difference in detail retrieval, textures of sounds, microdynamics, naturalness and something I'd call "ease of sound" was something obvious within first 30 seconds of replay of any record I put on.
    Darren L likes this.
  12. kernow

    kernow pfm Member

    Personally I'd never let a dealer set up my turntable but hey
    myles likes this.
  13. Mike Hanson

    Mike Hanson Lovely!

    I've got a Rega Planar 3 with a Dynavector 10x4 Mk 2 and Rega Aria phono stage. It was setup by someone who is very competent, and I can say with absolute conviction even a modest DAC can easily beat it in almost every way. The only ways in which my vinyl rig sounds "better" is that the highs are rolled off and "smooth" and the bass is round and "warm". From what I understand of the physical limitations of vinyl, these traits make sense.

    Perhaps if I spent another $10-20,000, I could have something that was comparable to my digital front ends. However, dealing with records is innately troublesome, so it will always be an occasional diversion for me. It's a pleasant enough also-ran, though. :)
    CTank, Miss Ariel and John Phillips like this.
  14. lordmortlock

    lordmortlock A Linde Mann

    True, but I was assuming the love of music was a given. Vinyl brings in other elements. The physical enjoyment of the medium and artwork, the ritual of selecting and preparing to play, and the crate digging, collecting and compiling.
    myles and Fergus like this.
  15. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    My turntable is 1960s technology; a TD-124/II, SME 3009, and Nagaoka MP500 (1970s technology!). Far from cheap on today’s second hand market, especially given my phono stage is part of an expensive JC Verdier valve preamp stuffed with prime-period Mullards. One that has taken me a huge/insane amount of time, effort and expense to restore to pretty much as-new condition. It is up against a Rega Apollo R transport and a £2.6k DPA PDM3 DAC, so that’s not a cheap combo either. I could stack a dem either way by choosing outlying albums, but the best this system ever sounds is vinyl. Every time. I still stand by the mastering being the most important part (and I am truly obsessive with both formats), but if I had to choose one it would be vinyl. No question about it.
    Mike Hanson likes this.
  16. Mike Hanson

    Mike Hanson Lovely!

    Yeah, the source material definitely has a major impact. I've got a bunch of vinyl dups of CDs, which I purchased for nostalgia's sake and to compare to their digital counterparts. I would say that many early CDs don't sound as good as vinyl, which can be chalked up to the lack of mastering finesse in the early days of CDs. Therefore, I'm with you there 100% on the importance of mastering (on both formats).

    I'll say this: if I have a poor sounding CD and a poor sounding record, I think I prefer the vinyl. It tends to smooth over the rough parts in a more graceful manner. However, I've also noticed that a good DAC makes a much higher percentage of CDs sound palatable.
    domfjbrown likes this.
  17. Lurch

    Lurch pfm Member

    If I'm honest with myself, I wish I'd stuck with my 30 year old Manticore Mantra/AT95E and 50 - 60 records that I had when I got back into this hobby in late 2016. Vinyl now accounts for maybe 3% of my listening even though I've a circa £22k rrp vinyl rig inc BB3 PS (cost me ~£9k) and nearly 1000 LPs. My ZenITH 3 & heavily pimped Black Ice DSD matches my Bardo/12" Enterprise4/Koetsu RSP/BB3 for an outlay of £4.4k, and forms & 95% of my listening predominantly via RP & Qobuz. These last few months I've actually been considering selling the vinyl rig, selecting 50 LPs to keep and getting a ~£1k tt for occasional use. The only things stopping me is the current market for highend tts and procrastination, thinking I may get back to it at a latter date.
    I definitely wouldn't advise anyone with <10 records to get into vinyl infact I'd tell them to sell what they have and move on. Starting out with vinyl to my mind is very much a case of go large or go home.
    domfjbrown, CTank and Mike Hanson like this.
  18. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    I’m the opposite on that and actively hunt down early Japanese and West German CD pressings as they tend to be flat master transfers and most of my best sounding CDs are of this era. Some surprisingly big bands too, e.g. Steely Dan, Pink Floyd, David Bowie etc have never beaten their first CD masters, not even with SACD, DVD Audio, high-res streaming etc. If original vinyl is too spendy these are often the next best option IMO.

    One thing that throws a lot of people is early CDs tend to be cut very quiet, and that throws people into thinking they are thin and gutless. The good ones really aren’t, they are cut quiet to leave room for real dynamic range and there is some degree of engineering laziness here too, i.e. cut quiet rather than risk clipping and having to redo. Just turn them right up and they kick! Not all are great, but a fair few are just stunning and have never been beaten digitally. Some labels just knock it out of the park time after time, e.g. ECM. Those are always superb sounding with real dynamics. Obviously a lot of the problem with digital is very deliberate bad decisions e.g. blanket ‘brick wall’ compression at the mastering stage. Vast numbers of albums are all but unlistenable due to that to my ears. Vinyl has the advantage that you just can’t cut that sort of ‘always on’ signal, so they have no option to allow some real dynamic range.
  19. paulfromcamden

    paulfromcamden Baffled

    I think it's horses for courses really. My little Lenco cost less than some folk here spend on a fuse. I know it's not the last word in sonic excellence - doesn't matter. I use it every day and it puts a smile on my face.

    I enjoy hunting for grimy records in £1 bins, other folk won't let a record through the door unless it's a mint audiophile pressing mastered from the original tapes by Abyssinian virgins*

    No right or wrong - it's just working out what makes you happy innit.

    * or Kevin Gray
    guydarryl and Big Tabs like this.
  20. The Captain

    The Captain ~~~~~~~~~~

    We're on a slippery slope for the OP now. But I'm all oiled up ready to slide..

    I'm not surprised at all you think this of the rega p3 even with a fine cartridge on. The design goal it seems to me with rega TT's is to emulate high end cd sound. And some cartridges too. It's all wrong to me.

    This is what it's all about OP. Ditch that silly modern carbon thing that's trying to be a cd player, get a Lenco & grub about in the bins like paulfromcamden.

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