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Finding Vinyl hard to fall in love with

You've got a Project Debut plugged into a Naim 52 and wonder why it doesn't sound very inspiring? :0.

Good grief. This has nothing to do with setting up or cartridge choice. The Project is a budget turntable and not a very brilliant one at that. All the Naim amp is going to do is let you hear just how dull and boring the Project is. If you want to get an an idea of what vinyl is about, in the context of that system, you're going to need a bigger boat.


This with bells on, the electronics are simply too revealing of your T/T unfortunately.
 
A cheap digital setup will actually murder a turntable setup of the same price. It takes money and patience to beat cheap digital, and exponentially more to beat good digital.

Sometimes I actually prefer Spotify through my dac. Other times I don't. There's a 10x cost difference
 
This with bells on, the electronics are simply too revealing of your T/T unfortunately.

I’d phrase it a little differently and argue there is a level of turntable/arm/cartridge required at any system level to equal good quality CD/streaming replay. I’m not sure exactly where that is, but probably somewhere in the current SL1200 or Planar 3 level with a really nice MM (Nagaoka, Audio Technica, Rega etc with a good tip). Obviously loads of great second-hand items that won’t break the bank, Thorens TD-150/160/125, AR, Heybrook etc.

I’m actually very reluctant to recommend vinyl to anyone who isn’t interested in the speculative/collection aspects and hasn’t got proper money to do it right. Most of us here have collections built up over a lifetime that are now worth an absolute fortune, so are in a very different position. Vinyl replay has always required high-precision mechanical engineering, and that is never cheap.
 
I’m actually very reluctant to recommend vinyl to anyone who isn’t interested in the speculative/collection aspects and hasn’t got proper money to do it right.

I don't either but a Planar3 is not that expensive and more than good enough for most people.
 
I’m actually very reluctant to recommend vinyl to anyone who isn’t interested in the speculative/collection aspects and hasn’t got proper money to do it right. Most of us here have collections built up over a lifetime that are now worth an absolute fortune, so are in a very different position. Vinyl replay has always required high-precision mechanical engineering, and that is never cheap.

It's a funny one. I'd say purely in terms of accuracy of reproduction my ancient Meridian CD player is head and shoulders above my humble Lenco. But I play x10 more records than I do CDs. I don't think that's a reflection on the sound of the Meridian which is superb, simply that there's something about the way records sound that really like.

I'm also fully aware that my judgement is coloured by the fact that I really like records as objets, really like record shops etc and it's hard to unpick all that objectively. And so long as I'm having fun I don't really feel the need to : )
 
I bought an older LP12 from @lencotweaker in the classifieds (about £1k) that persuaded me to ditch my much more expensive Michell Orbe - which I found not to be much of an improvement over an entry Rega.

They are easy to buy at the price and to sell on if you're not happy.

I'm now on a mid-priced LP12 and still not getting what the big thing about the sound of records.
Main enjoyment for me is you make time to listen to the music without the ability to fast forward with a remote control.
It's also fun - but expensive fun - to get into the upgrades that can be done.

Not everyone shares my opinions though...
 
Yes, digital is cheap. To get a viable alternative to £100 Topping you'll need Planar 3 level of TT or better. As Paul implies, vinyl is very much heart over head these days, especially if you're starting from scratch and buying new - new vinyl sounds rarely better than CD, often worse, and costs twice as much.
 
I bought an older LP12 from @lencotweaker in the classifieds (about £1k) that persuaded me to ditch my much more expensive Michell Orbe - which I found not to be much of an improvement over an entry Rega.

They are easy to buy at the price and to sell on if you're not happy.

I'm now on a mid-priced LP12 and still not getting what the big thing about the sound of records.
Main enjoyment for me is you make time to listen to the music without the ability to fast forward with a remote control.
It's also fun - but expensive fun - to get into the upgrades that can be done.

Not everyone shares my opinions though...
It sounds like you've explored a few different turntables there and still not getting what you expect from the format; I'd venture to say it isn't the Orbe's fault, or the LP12's problem. I've had both and although different in their presentation, both are capable of excellent reproduction of the music. My Orbe is fantastic.

Sounds like fundamental setup problems to me, which is part of both the joy and horror of playing records!
 
Romantic ideas with vinyl that you can just throw a few random parts together and you will have sound to match an even basic digital system.
It takes work ,thought ,and more than a little money.
 
Hi Rob,

Before spending any money/making any component changes you need to confirm that you've got everything set up correctly. This is absolutely critical.

The other basic and yet really important thing is having clean records and a clean stylus.

Even the most expensive set-up will sound awful if not correctly adjusted and playing a dirty record.

Only when you know that everything is set up correctly and clean can you make any meaningful judgment on the kit you already have.

The highly modified Sony CDP-710 you bought from me is a very good player and you're going to have to throw a lot of money at a vinyl front end to compete with it. Try not to fall into the trap of comparing the two. All that matters is whether you enjoy it.
 
I’ve had a few friends asking advice about ‘getting into vinyl’, my advice is always “don’t bother”. Unless you have a collection it’s utterly pointless. I bought my first TT I’m the mid 90s, all my mates thought I was mad but I had some records & no CDs; it was therefore logical.

Now I get the odd 2nd hand record but generally mine CDs or pay for digital downloads. An increasing number of acts are releasing HD on Bandcamp & it’s always a nice surprise.
 
I’ve had a few friends asking advice about ‘getting into vinyl’, my advice is always “don’t bother”. Unless you have a collection it’s utterly pointless. I bought my first TT I’m the mid 90s, all my mates thought I was mad but I had some records & no CDs; it was therefore logical.

To my mind it depends entirely on musical taste. If on the cutting edge of new music then I suspect buying highly limited releases via Bandcamp, Rough Trade, Bleep etc is a really good long-term move and equivalent to your buying vinyl throughout the ‘90s (much of which will now be worth LOLprice now, certainly the stuff from the mid to late part of the decade). Buying bog standard reissues is a waste of time and money, and buying good originals of core titles very expensive.

As an example I dug my Smiths collection out after the sad death of Andy Rourke. A near mint set of UK 1st pressings, all of which are worth a lot now, before even factoring the first album is fully signed! Do that with the current music scene and the same logic will likely apply, except pressing numbers now are way lower so they may well end up far more collectable as less were ever in play. The Smiths sold millions, yet a genuinely mint UK 1st press copy of The Queen Is Dead (their largest selling album) can make over £100.

I’ve bought a lot of stuff over the past few years that is in editions of 10 to 500, a lot signed, a lot with hand created covers etc. There is a lot of really cool stuff around right now and I’m certain it will do well long term. It actually reminds me of the very early days of punk, new-wave and the DIY scene where so many were doing their own thing in small numbers. So much really collectable stuff from that era now. The folk I feel sorry for are the ones buying copyright pirate jazz reissues, lazy badly remastered digitally sourced classic rock titles etc. That will never not be junk and a lot of folk are being ripped-off IMO.

So, no right answer here. I’m also of the view that high quality vinyl replay is never cheap unless you really luck-out at a local auction or whatever.
 
To my mind it depends entirely on musical taste. If on the cutting edge of new music then I suspect buying highly limited releases via Bandcamp, Rough Trade, Bleep etc is a really good long-term move and equivalent to your buying vinyl throughout the ‘90s (much of which will now be worth LOLprice now, certainly the stuff from the mid to late part of the decade). Buying bog standard reissues is a waste of time and money, and buying good originals of core titles very expensive.

As an example I dug my Smiths collection out after the sad death of Andy Rourke. A near mint set of UK 1st pressings, all of which are worth a lot now, before even factoring the first album is fully signed! Do that with the current music scene and the same logic will likely apply, except pressing numbers now are way lower so they may well end up far more collectable as less were ever in play. The Smiths sold millions, yet a genuinely mint UK 1st press copy of The Queen Is Dead (their largest selling album) can make over £100.

I’ve bought a lot of stuff over the past few years that is in editions of 10 to 500, a lot signed, a lot with hand created covers etc. There is a lot of really cool stuff around right now and I’m certain it will do well long term. It actually reminds me of the very early days of punk, new-wave and the DIY scene where so many were doing their own thing in small numbers. So much really collectable stuff from that era now. The folk I feel sorry for are the ones buying copyright pirate jazz reissues, lazy badly remastered digitally sourced classic rock titles etc. That will never not be junk and a lot of folk are being ripped-off IMO.

So, no right answer here. I’m also of the view that high quality vinyl replay is never cheap unless you really luck-out at a local auction or whatever.
Well, I can’t argue with your wider points but I never considered vinyl as an investment, just a medium. I’d urge caution about low volume stuff always being of value, some artists just don’t take off & there is unlikely to be any interest. Obviously you will be aware of this.

I’ve bought the odd bit of vinyl from Bandcamp but some of the postage costs can be astronomical. Whichever way you look at it, new vinyl is expensive.

I’ve actually started buying 2nd hand CDs of records I already own. For example I bought ‘New Adventures in Hifi’ for £2, I have the original vinyl issue, worth a fair bit, but rarely listen to it all the way through. I sat down at the weekend & played the whole CD, wasn’t worried about getting up & down to flip the four sides; really enjoyed it!

REM are one of my all time favourites but most of their albums are on vinyl, if I see a CD version for cheap I will buy it so it can burned on the Innuos Zen. I am a total format agnostic now whereas before I always felt vinyl sounded ‘better’.
 
It sounds like you've explored a few different turntables there and still not getting what you expect from the format; I'd venture to say it isn't the Orbe's fault, or the LP12's problem. I've had both and although different in their presentation, both are capable of excellent reproduction of the music. My Orbe is fantastic.

Sounds like fundamental setup problems to me, which is part of both the joy and horror of playing records!

Agreed, there's no way an orbe performs like an entry level rega
 
@lordmortlock spot on advice.

OP. The advice regarding a TD-160 is extremely sensible. It's 2/3rds of a very good linn turntable sound, cheap. It will give you the exact thing you're striving for, considering you don't want to spend too much. And it's German made, not so-so Czech made. Like an old bmw, instead of a new tiny Skoda. It will be good enough into your very upmarket Nac, & might well absolutely sing too.

Capt.
 
If I was going to buy a suspended deck for a reasonable price I would go for a Systemdek 11X or 11X900 - easier to adjust and the sound is every bit as good as a TD160.
 


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