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Finding a standalone DAC with minimum bells/whistles

gustav_errata

gustav_errata

pfm Member
Hi first-time poster, hi-fi newbie here.

Lockdown and an expatriated US stimulus check stimulated me into finally upgrading from more than a decade of listening to music at best on a Cambridge Audio TV5 soundbase, at worst on cheap Creative computer speakers (with no stereo separation, no less). A flurry of research and some online new-or-used shopping later and I have found myself with the following, somewhat budget-constrained & unbalanced setup:

- Naim NAC112 + NAP150
- Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100
- SOtM sMS-200 Neo Special Edition running MPD
- DALI Oberon 5 floorstanding speakers
- Various cables: Naim NAC A5 speaker cables, Flashback Sales Performance RCA-to-DIN interconnect, MCRU "audiophile" mains block, everything else stock
- 1st gen Raspberry Pi + Gerbera DLNA/UPnP

Compared to my former setup, this sounds great and I have already put in a lot of very contented listening.

But, of course, non-stop reading makes me constantly question whether I made the right choices. I know already about possible upgrade paths like (in descending order) room treatment, a Flatcap, better NAS, fancypants USB/ethernet/power cables, etc. As an aside, it wasn't until I came here that I started to read complaints about the NAC112/NAP150 combo. Now perverse human psychology makes me start to doubt that purchase too, despite my original contentment with it...irrational, I know...thanks guys!

Anyway, getting to the point. Even as I purchased it, I saw the DacMagic 100 as a stop-gap solution to get myself up-and-running within my budget. I chose it because it's a) a decent enough, trustworthy brand with which I have previous experience; b) it's a UK brand (even if manufactured in China), so less of a concern with warranties and such than going for a Shenzen import on Amazon; and c) all reviews pointed to it being an ok enough performer.

I can't help but wonder, though, if a DAC more "value-matched" to the rest of my equipment (decidedly not high-end, I know, but hopefully it makes sense) would bring any real improvement. The problem is, it seems that most DACs in the, say, GBP 300-1000-ish range all double as headphone amps, pre-amps, streamers, etc. I don't want to spend money on that stuff (or, rather, I already have). I just want top-notch D/A conversion sent out at line level to my pre-amp. Asynchronous, galvanically isolated USB and TosLink inputs are necessary, but balanced outputs aren't. It seems the Chord Qutest is a viable candidate, albeit at the top of my price range, but Chord DACs are ugly as hell to me and the UI seems annoying. What other options are out there that I might be missing?

I'm not interested in importing a DAC that has been specially designed to measure well on the limited battery of tests performed by some reviewers, only to end up showing some other flaw in its design that comes out if you measure something else. Evolution by artificial selection...
 
I'll preface this by saying I've never heard it, but maybe the NJC dac might fit the bill? Details here. I've paused over it a few times ...
 
If you can live with a full size DAC then the Roksan K3 would be perfect, absolutely no bells & whistles & sounds superb, Available 2nd hand for around £250 (list price new was £1295 but they were widely discounted, guess they weren't as trendy as the Chord or Audiolab equivalents).
TS
 
Very interesting alternatives, thanks. I haven't looked at either of those before.

The NJC one appeals for the hand-built nature. Chip-wise, it looks like a mostly lateral move (both it and the DacMagic 100 have Wolfson chips (WM8741 for the NJC, WM8742 for the DacMagic), but the overall build quality and surrounding components of the NJC look far and away better than the DacMagic. The only minor concern is that via USB (for my sMS-200), it supports 16-bit/48kHz max...but, tbh, I mainly listen to 16/44.1 FLAC files.

The Roksan sure looks physically beefy. That would definitely require a new hi-fi rack before a new DAC (which was probably going to happen that way anyway).
 
gustav_errata said:
NAC112/NAP150 combo
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The NAC112 gets a lot of crap, I think mostly because it is the least 'Naim-like' product Naim ever made! Having a digitally controlled stepped attenuator is an unforgivable heresy! Conversely it may suit many people better than some of Naim's other products for much the same reason, Naim's house sound is a little polarising (see about half the threads on this forum :D) I had a 112/150 for over a decade, at the £700 I bought them for they were an absolute bargain, at the £575 I sold them on for quite recently even more so. I really wouldn't worry unless you actively want to spend more money!
 
That looks like a nice system. CA 100 is a known vfm Dac and easily competes with anything up the £500 really. I had one for years. I think it’s predecessor just had the edge sound quality wise but I wanted a higher res usb for my Touch. Naim are great but your on an upgrade path.Fine if you’re ok with that but you may never be satisfied until you own a whole load of boxes. I did have Naim which I enjoyed but didn’t want to pay the upgrade prices for potentially minimal improvement so looked elsewhere. Or you could look to change the speakers. Never heard Dalis but seem well liked. Changing speakers can make the biggest difference.Changed my boxes to Maggies recently and made the biggest change since I started hifi, and a very positive difference. I’ve also just invested in a zip 4 and Hifiberry Spdif hat into my Yammy Sabre Dac. Worth the outlay IMO. In the end, if you like what you have, stick with it. Why change? I liked my previous system and it was only a hankering for the transparency of panels that made me change things not the quality of what I had.
Good luck in your quest.
 
Personally up to the £1K I'd go with the RME ADI even though it has extras

Not familiar with SoTM - do they do a DAC to suit that matches your Neo? Second hand in keeping with the amps and small form factor Naim V1 or Rega DAC-R be worth looking at.
 
I'd agree with Amber Audio about the RME ADI - I've had one for the last year or so, used in combination with a power amp, and I really like it. If memory serves, it can be used with fixed output to a pre-amp. However, it does have a level of complexity with respect to multi-function rotary controls, all detailed in a substantial manual, with information diplayed on an excellent though quite small colour display. I find I need to be quite close up to use it effectively, so not too convenient when it's in a low cabinet. That said,I think RME have brought out a new remote with more functions which make it easier to use.
 
Barkiss said:
I'd agree with Amber Audio about the RME ADI - I've had one for the last year or so, used in combination with a power amp, and I really like it. If memory serves, it can be used with fixed output to a pre-amp. However, it does have a level of complexity with respect to multi-function rotary controls, all detailed in a substantial manual, with information diplayed on an excellent though quite small colour display. I find I need to be quite close up to use it effectively, so not too convenient when it's in a low cabinet. That said,I think RME have brought out a new remote with more functions which make it easier to use.
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Thinking about swappoy my chord Mojo for one of these, don't suppose you've heard them both?
Cheers
 
I had the Qutest and RME at the same time - not much in it sound wise if anything and with the filters pretty much even steven, I kept the RME in the end. Found the Chord coloured button UX a pita and slightly less of a pita that the quantum physics menus/options of the RME

Sold the RME before lockdown, have the SONCOZ now but likely get the newer RME and swap it out - (compared to old RME version there is a better remote slightly newer DAC chip I believe)

The SONCOZ SGD1 is actually very good for the money but has a niggle or 2 and is from the Chi Fi ASR measurement clan so I didn't mention as an option to the OP
 
Thanks for the suggestions everyone! I'll try to reply to all here rather than a bunch of individual replies.

Amps: yeah I'm not genuinely looking to swap them out any time soon, just that some seeds of doubt have been planted! I'm really liking what I hear, so I would rather build on that than swap it out any time soon. And yeah, at £600 for the pair (w/2 runs of NACA5 cables for an extra 75), I think I did alright.

Speakers: I think this would be my first serious upgrade to "the next level". However, that would have to wait until whenever we might move to a different place. The DALIs sound great, but another factor in selecting them was the form factor and wide dispersion characteristics, since my room layout is pretty restrictive. So, maybe in a couple years I'll start looking into that.

For DACs, lots of good suggestions here. The Qutest or 2Qute aren't completely off the radar, just looking for alternatives. I wasn't aware of the RDE, NJC or Roksan DACs at all. I did seriously consider the Soncoz since there's a UK importer, but I think it doesn't support line-level output (you have to mess with the volume knob) and I'm not crazy about the wireless firmware updating setup. SOtM (the makers of my streamer) have a small headphone amp + DAC (in-budget) and a big pre-amp + DAC (way out of budget), but the former doesn't look like what I'm after and the latter is just too expensive. I have also seriously considered the Naim DAC-V1 and have even considered swapping out the NAC112 for it (but probably won't because in the long run I want a phono setup). But using the DAC-V1 as a standalone remains a strong option that I forgot to mention. I also forgot to mention Schiit, because they're generally out of stock in the UK. In any case, my timeline for this, if I do decide to upgrade, will be after some months. I'm just finding out my options so I can keep an eye out for deals and otherwise know what to target.
 
Amber Audio said:
the quantum physics menus/options of the RME
Click to expand...

Lol - exactly! Feel you have to don a white coat before operating it.

Yes, the newer version uses AKM's AK4493. The new remote looks more comprehensive, access to bass and treble controls for example. And the good news is that you can use it with older models, subject to undergoing a firmware upgrade.
 
A friend compared Naim DAC V1 vs an older Rega DAC
Actually he liked the Rega better, thats pretty cool as he paid €300 s/h only for the Rega.
 
Oh yeah, the Rega one looks nice too. That was actually at the top of my list before I decided to restrict my budget and go down to the CA DM100. It (the latest DAC-R) has the same chip as the DM100, but it has one per channel. Actually, I'd say it's a lot like the DacMagic Plus without the ancillary headphone amp: 2x Wolfson chips & selectable filter. I'm not sure how the sound compares though.
 
Dom500 said:
Thinking about swappoy my chord Mojo for one of these, don't suppose you've heard them both?
Cheers
Click to expand...
I use a Mojo for headphones duties but recently tried it in my living room setup against the RME DAC. No contest, RME beats it hand down. Mojo lacks sparkle and sounds closed-in. I guess it’s no real surprise, the RME is more than twice the price.
 
I was going to suggest the Rega DAC-R too. The non-R one I use I like very much, though admittedly it's only the 2nd DAC I've ever had.

Only the -R has asynchronous USB I think, but I use a cheapo Behringer DAC as a USB to SPDIF converter between it and my Mac mini.

They crop up in the classifieds here fairly often.
 
I can heartily recommend the Roksan K3 dac, has comfortably seen off Chord Mojo, Schiit Bifrost Multibit, Rega Saturn R, built in dac of Bluesound, and a bunch of others.

It is stupidly cheap because Roksan discontinued the product, and pretty much gave away the remaining stock to retailers.

As big as an amp, but you won’t have to worry about linear power supply upgrades that cost more than the dac itself.
 
I thought about mentioning the RME but decided not to because of your stated desire for no bells & whistles which the RME has aplenty. I actually replaced my Roksan with an RME (the updated one) because I couldn't live with the size of it & the headphone amp on the RME allowed me to simplify my set up (the headphone amp on the RME is superb, easily up there with my previous Woo Audio Fireflies without the accompanying noise & electric bill). The RME has what I would describe as a cleaner more hifi SQ the the Roksan which has a warmer sound with a fuller bottom end. All depends what your looking for but I marginally prefer the RME with most of the music I listen to these days. Both are superior IMO to the Mytec Liberty which is another alternative I have also owned which I found a bit to dry & analytical.
All of this is IMO of course & as always you should let your own personal preferences & ears guide you. If you buy carefully 2nd hand then you could probably try out a few DACs at minimum financial risk.
TS
 
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