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Facebook vs World Governments

Arkless Electronics said:
It levels the playing field somewhat and I approve of that.

People should watch "The Capture" for a warning of what can happen.. yes it's "only fiction" but the tech used is pretty much all now extant!
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You didn't answer the question. You are against surveillance but it now appears two wrongs do make a right.
 
flatpopely said:
You didn't answer the question. You are against surveillance but it now appears two wrongs do make a right.
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I am against surveillance yes but if it must happen (and it will as we can't un-invent it) then it must be used against the state, the police, the military etc as well as by them. By whom...? by the likes of Extinction Rebellion and pro democracy groups in HK and Kurdish forces facing invasion by Turkey at this moment, and Black Lives Matter, and anti Brexit campaigners, and anti Trump groups for just a few examples.
"The state" are the scum that used it against Stephen Lawrence's parents and support group, and even infiltrated it with undercover scum bags!

Being a right winger (and therefore always in the wrong:D) you no doubt have that common right wing view that gov, state, police etc etc are always "the good guys".... and that "everything is for the best in the best of all possible worlds".... ROFLMAO!
 
Arkless Electronics said:
I am against surveillance yes but if it must happen (and it will as we can't un-invent it) then it must be used against the state, the police, the military etc as well as by them. By whom...? by the likes of Extinction Rebellion and pro democracy groups in HK and Kurdish forces facing invasion by Turkey at this moment, and Black Lives Matter, and anti Brexit campaigners, and anti Trump groups for just a few examples.
"The state" are the scum that used it against Stephen Lawrence's parents and support group, and even infiltrated it with undercover scum bags!

Being a right winger (and therefore always in the wrong:D) you no doubt have that common right wing view that gov, state, police etc etc are always "the good guys".... and that "everything is for the best in the best of all possible worlds".... ROFLMAO!
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I do not hold the view that the 'state' etc. is always correct, far from it. I just think on balance surveillance does more good than harm. It prevents terrorism, offences against the person, keeping its citizens safe - the kind of things a Government should have as a priority.
 
flatpopely said:
I do not hold the view that the 'state' etc. is always correct, far from it. I just think on balance surveillance does more good than harm. It prevents terrorism, offences against the person, keeping its citizens safe - the kind of things a Government should have as a priority.
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Ask the Houthis being bombed with British weapons by the despotic Saudi regime who the terrorists are;)
 
flatpopely said:
So it's OK for individuals to track police but not the other way around?
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Yes.



Actually it is OK for the police to "track" specific named individuals if they have taken evidence of a possible crime or crimes to a suitably empowered judicial or executive individual who then agrees that there is a threat warrants an infringement of their privacy. For a limited time span and with the destruction of any information that falls outside of that particular threat.
 
Swamp Thing said:
Yes.



Actually it is OK for the police to "track" specific named individuals if they have taken evidence of a possible crime or crimes to a suitably empowered judicial or executive individual who then agrees that there is a threat warrants an infringement of their privacy. For a limited time span and with the destruction of any information that falls outside of that particular threat.
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i am glad you took the time to explain the fundamentals we have (more or less) been living with nicely for at least half a decade.
 
What I don’t quite understand is the HK Map app was just a wrapper to this site https://hkmap.live/ it was a convenient way to put the app onscreen like so many similar apps like timetable and journey planning apps that plug into web-based services. It’s on the web, if HK blocked the website, it blocked the app
 
claire.foxx said:
What I don’t quite understand is the HK Map app was just a wrapper to this site https://hkmap.live/ it was a convenient way to put the app onscreen like so many similar apps like timetable and journey planning apps that plug into web-based services. It’s on the web, if HK blocked the website, it blocked the app
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But as the website still shows where the bacon is, it's a non-story, you mean?
 
Well, it’s also a salutary lesson about web sites being harder to takedown than apps. There are a host of workarounds for accessing this in HK, no workarounds if Apple yanks it and deletes it from your machines while you were not looking. Open street map and not Apple or Google also makes it hard to completely block.
 
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It demonstrates (pun alert) that big companies will bow to power when it risks affecting their bottom line, but that when the info isn't theirs in the first place it may remain accessible by other means. Which in turn indicates another example of how people relying on 'apps' and commercially closed systems can have their view of reality manipulated.

Walled gardens get tidied up by their owners.
 
You can drag the web address to your phones home screen and it becomes almost indistinguishable from an app, it’s common knowledge so at this point apple’s compliance is fairly meaningless but it raises a much more important issue beyond just Apple about corporations like Microsoft, Google and so on taking contracts for entities like ICE. GitHub and open source repos providing code to projects that seek to harm marginalised ppls.

Even if corporations make/sell stuff we like, they’re not our friends. I’m not surprised although I am disappointed with Apple (or Microsoft’s) stance in this particular case. Proving yet again that the needs of shareholders and money speaks louder than humanitarian values.

But the bottom line is that the tools still exists in a useful and widely distributed form. Just don’t take open source for granted — it still takes resources, time and management — it’s just it’s not reliant on shareholders to create and maintain it.
 
You'd think that wouldn't need mentioning, but damned if it doesn't. All of that courtesy horseshit business loves to shower you with like personalized greetings and 'loyal customer' blah blah. If it didn't work on enough people they wouldn't bother.

Even my doctors play the game - if everyone there is super polite and the guy appears to actually listen while the visit lingers quite a bit longer than usual, I know there's a survey questionnaire coming regarding my 'recent visit' that will spend the 1st and last paragraphs telling me how much they value my illness.
 
Amazon’s ring doorbell being hawked door to door by cops. Cops get preferential access to the ring database even if customers say no, there is no opt out. Police wanting access to surveillance footage without the pesky need for accountability; businesses, governments and law enforcement interests aligning.

Seriously, **** these ppl.

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...azon-police-partnership-social-media-neighbor
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...ice-are-troubling-home-security-lobbyists-say
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...active-camera-maps-of-its-customers-to-police
 
That's hilarious! Who the hell needs all these in-home smart apps that turn stuff off and on and surveillance systems that require disclaimers or opt-in online acceptance to DL the application. Pure gadgetitus. But then it could become normalized and automatic to the point people are getting off watching and being watched. Two-way surveillance porn! Maybe your junk could be used to ID you like dental records.
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vuk said:
why would anybody not want the police to protect them?
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Fine if that's *all* they do with the data. So the answer potentially lays in what you haven't taken into account in your question.

Take the other extreme and ask if you'd be happy for the police to have an active microphone and camera in every room in your home, and collect the data from them 24/7 to keep in case they decide to use it later. Perhaps as info to let them pay more attention to you should some law or other change in future. Or maybe the Government decides it is cheaper to 'outsource' the Police and allow them to subsidise their costs by selling data to companies, etc.

The point here isn't that the above example 'will' happen. The point is that you need to second guess, in advance, what will. Caution may be wise.
 
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