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Exposure / Epos ES14 amplification upgrade advice wanted

I

imtheonethat

Member
Hi, this is my first post on these forums so be kind.

The system which I have owned since the mid nineties consists of a modified micromega stage 2 CD player, Exposure XVII pre / XVIII power and EPOS ES14s (Cable talk speaker cable). I am happy with the system sound overall but the one area where I would like a little more is tighter bass with more welly.

I love my ES14s' (superb mid band) and ideally dont want to replace them if possible. In the hunt for better bass an option I am considering is upgrading the power amp (within the Exposure brand if possible).

Do you think this is the right approach and can I expect more out of the EPOS 14's with a better power amp?

(PS and before anyone asks I prefer the bungs in)
 
You can get tight bass from ES14's but anecdotal evidence would suggest that it can be room dependant. Use them with the bungs fully in (as you do), out from the walls and spiked firmly to rigid stands (also firmly spiked to the floor) and you should achieve what you want. I'm not familiar with Exposure amps but my experience with Naim amps suggests that ES14's would benefit from your suggested upgrade.
 
Thanks for the reply Ynwoan, as you suggested, I have them on the dedicated stands, unfortunately my room means they have to be relatively close to the walls, not much I can do about it apart from moving ... hmm :)

What was your experience with Naim power amp upgrades to ES14 bass?
 
If they are in oak or walnut with original stands you've had it really and nothing can be done to improve them. You'd be best to get shot of them asap imho. Sell them (sell them to me!) :D

You could try pulling them out from the walls just to see how they sound...
 
@ deltaunit, unfortuately for you they are plain vanilla black, so I'm afraid they are not upto snuff and obviously won't sound as good as oak / walnut :( Maybe if I sprinkle a little snake oil over them, will that work?
 
Au contraire, those will be good enough to keep :)

You be surprised what an extra 10-15cm out from the rear wall could do for you. I have a pair of es11s and with these there is a real sweet spot where the boom reduces and sound tightens up (although they aren't bunged up like the 14s).
 
imtheonethat said:
What was your experience with Naim power amp upgrades to ES14 bass?
Click to expand...

I had a Nap140 which was OK but ultimately, I thought, rather lack-lustre.

I replaced it with a Nap250 which was noticeably better in every respect.

I then replaced that with a pair of Nap135's which I also found to be better in every respect (among other qualities the bass was tighter and more tuneful). I still use these power amps with my ES14's.
 
The only expo amps that are really any better than the stereo XVIII would be the regulated ones.

that means the dual IV DR, the XVI monos or the XVIII monos, or possibly the VIII monos.

They're all as rare as hens teeth.

On the other hand a pair of Naim 135's would do a splendid job and have a very similar character.
 
You don't say what has been done to the Stage 2, but in standard form the bass performance was the weakest aspect of the Stage series players.
 
Agreed, I have a stage 3 with modded clock and regulation and it's better than it was in the bass, though still only used in my workshop. (I have ES14's as well). I'd go with a better cd player before you start with amplification.

Ynwan is right, what you have behind your speakers will make more difference than what you have connected to them.
 
flatpopely said:
Contact Zener and get him to build you a ZAP250. It's a superb amp and great match for ES14s.
Click to expand...

The only thing is that I think the exposure amp the OP has is very like a Zap250 already (looking at some pics of it).

exposure_XVIII_inside.png
 
The basic XVIII power amp is a good amp, but the IVDR or mono XVIII are far better in terms of bass impact and control. They do pop up for sale from time to time, both on pfm and on eBay. If you do decide to try the Naim route, go with the matching pre. I've mixed and matched in the past, and never successfully.
 
Anything SS with enough clean power is going to drive ES14s very well, from old shoebox Cyrus amps upwards. Robin Marshall agreed back in the day that a Cyrus 2 or Audiolab integrated was ample for the speaker requirements. Focus on the speaker positioning within the room to tune the bass and also experiment with the bung.
Are these the later ES14 with the nose cone on the bass driver or the originals with concave dust cap?
The bass performance on them is different - better on the original IMO and the requirement of the bung is a little different.
I've seen some ES14 bungs made from furniture grade foam and this simply seals the box.
What you need is something that allows the box to breathe (aperiodic loading), so perhaps before you start making expensive amplifier changes spend a tenner of a sheet of open cell speaker cover foam. Cut a strip around three inches in width and roll this loosely into a roll sufficient to sit snugly in the port. Push it in until flush with the port entrance.
This usually allows the speaker to play a little lower in the bass (improving slam and impact on appropriate music) while retaining a good sense of bass grip and intelligibility.

So spend a tenner first and see what happens.

Nothing against any of the amps mentioned but in this instance what you have is perfectly good enough.
 
imtheonethat said:
Hi, this is my first post on these forums so be kind.

The system which I have owned since the mid nineties consists of a modified micromega stage 2 CD player, Exposure XVII pre / XVIII power and EPOS ES14s (Cable talk speaker cable). I am happy with the system sound overall but the one area where I would like a little more is tighter bass with more welly.

I love my ES14s' (superb mid band) and ideally dont want to replace them if possible. In the hunt for better bass an option I am considering is upgrading the power amp (within the Exposure brand if possible).

Do you think this is the right approach and can I expect more out of the EPOS 14's with a better power amp?

(PS and before anyone asks I prefer the bungs in)
Click to expand...

As some have pointed, your source need to match the rest gear.

Why not try a home dem of something better

A bigger amp may be another option allthough I don't like mis matching Naim / Exposure and you need to go high in Naim hiearchy to get more power...maybe just another XVIII to biamp ?

But first, get a decent source
 
@ Robert, they are the later version with the cones. Funny you should mention the Cyrus, the Exposure's replaced a Cyrus 3 + PSX-R, which I found too bright / tiring after a while (sibilant female vocals). You are right though along with others above, I need to investigate speaker placement first.

I tried over the last few days with the bungs out just to see the difference, the bass does extend lower which is one of the things I'm after but definately needs more control, bungs in still preferred overall. Your lower density foam idea sounds an interesting and cheap solution.

@ Rusty, the only modification carried out late 90's to the Micromega was simply a DIY replacement with Burr Brown op amps. This helped to remove some further brightness from the system and brought out more detail. At the same time I bought some audio grade electrolytics to replace some of the (tantaleum) solid caps smoothing the op amp power supply. But never got around to fitting them as I was happy with just the op amp improvement at the time. Perhaps its time to revisit replacement of some the caps as I have them lying around somewhere, with a slightly larger cap reservoir to the op amps these might give more juice to bass. Any thoughts from others who have carried out a similar tweak to CDPs?

@Theo, would a IVDR (Release 1) in your opinion make an improvement over the XVIII stereo? Also I notice there appear to be approx three versions of the IV. Standard IV, IVDR and IVDR2 with newer case, is there much difference sonically between them, also the XVIII monos?

Also anyone know what the going rate is for these amps S/H?

XVIII monos
IV Standard
IVDR (old case)
IVDR2 (newer case)

@per flemming, I do like the exposure sound :)
 
Me too:)

Stay clear on the non regulated IV, they are too uncontrolled in bas performance.

The IVDR is the natural upgrade for you or maybe XVIII monos
The XVI mono is very rare

The original Exposure CD-player is good and will tighten up your bas issue, so would a Naim CDS but then we are talking $$.

Lots of other alternatives out there (Rega Saturn amo), investigate source first is my advice, your amp/speaker is allready Vgood
 
Of the IV variants, the IVDR2 is the best, and noticably better than the standard XVIII. Usually around £650-£750 in vgc. Possibly £50-£100 more for a pair of XVIII monos (all dependent on condition).

XVI monos are very rare, and go for around £2,500 a pair in vgc. Difficult to judge though, as so few of them turn up.
 
Is your floor on suspended wooden boards and not solid? I had the same problem with my ES11's sounding boomy. At first i used room correction and then tried some granite chopping boards under the speaker stands, leaving the spikes on. Gave much tighter bass which helped with the lower mid range. If you take the spikes off the top of the stands it actually increases the bass, but its best to experiment.
As the others say, try and move them out from the wall a little bit each time to hear any affect. Jim.
 
They are sited on a wooden floor. I'll have go at changing the room around and speaker placement first.

Thanks for pointing out the source guys, I suppose a grew a little fond of the Micromega due to it being my baby with DIY mod, after I replace the op amp power caps just to see what happens :) It will be time for it to move on.

Then keep an eye out for a IVDR2 or XVIII monos if the price is right.
 
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