Exposed and unexposed film in aircraft hand luggage
- Thread starter guybat
- Start date
Guy,
If I were you i'd ask for all film to be manually checked if you are worried. I think the advice that xray machines doesn't damage film is useful for average consumer negative stuff in metal 35mm cans. For roll film i'd be more worried since it has no protection at all. At least it's not metal so should pass through a metal detector without anyone needing to unroll it!
Cesare
If I were you i'd ask for all film to be manually checked if you are worried. I think the advice that xray machines doesn't damage film is useful for average consumer negative stuff in metal 35mm cans. For roll film i'd be more worried since it has no protection at all. At least it's not metal so should pass through a metal detector without anyone needing to unroll it!
Cesare
guybat
[+]
OK, I will. Hadn't thought about it, but yes, you're right that 120 film has no protection at all compared to 35mm.
I've got a bumper pack of Neopan 400 still wrapped, and more importantly, two exposed but undeveloped rolls of comedy wedding shots. The bride will do terrible things to me if anything happens to them...
I've got a bumper pack of Neopan 400 still wrapped, and more importantly, two exposed but undeveloped rolls of comedy wedding shots. The bride will do terrible things to me if anything happens to them...
mentalp
pfm Member
Hi Guy
Good luck with a hand inspection - they've always refused point blank when I've asked (at least UK side). All my recent Greek stuff went through the handbaggage x-ray on the way out and back The machines are meant to be ok up to 800ASA - I've had some Delta 3200 go through with no ill effects though (which did surprise me) so perhaps no need to worry unduely
Good luck with a hand inspection - they've always refused point blank when I've asked (at least UK side). All my recent Greek stuff went through the handbaggage x-ray on the way out and back The machines are meant to be ok up to 800ASA - I've had some Delta 3200 go through with no ill effects though (which did surprise me) so perhaps no need to worry unduely
As a person who works in the field of Scintillator manufacture , I know a few things about X-rays. The Myth about X-ray damaging film is exactly that ...A myth. I will explain. X-rays are of such energy they pass straight through film , they do not give up their energy and therefore do not expose the film. Its energy that is stopped that is a problem.
This is the reason you have to have a Scintillator screen next to the film to get an X-ray image , the X-rays excite the screen , which give off light , which is of the correct energy to expose (absorbed by) a film . Hope that puts your minds at rest.
PS the image you see in baggage handling is of the scintillating screen glowing from X-ray excitation , viewed via a TV screen.
This is the reason you have to have a Scintillator screen next to the film to get an X-ray image , the X-rays excite the screen , which give off light , which is of the correct energy to expose (absorbed by) a film . Hope that puts your minds at rest.
PS the image you see in baggage handling is of the scintillating screen glowing from X-ray excitation , viewed via a TV screen.
Zener,
Assuming you are right, and that Xray damage is a myth, why does Kodak recommend that their films aren't put through Xray machines?
Try http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4016/f4016.pdf and look at page 19 onwards, describing their Tmax 3200 speed film:
KODAK PROFESSIONAL T-MAX P3200 Film is very
sensitive to environmental radiation; expose and process it
promptly. Request visual inspection of this film at airport
x-ray inspection stations.
They don't sell it in 120 format as it gets fogged by cosmic rays - they only sell it in 35mm canisters. Sure, this is a very high speed B&W film (actually it's ISO 800 which isn't that high) and is typically pushed. But the silver emulsion isn't anything clever, so if there is an affect on this film it will apply to all films? The advice is from 2007 so not that old.
My belief is that for most films the exposure from cosmic rays/xray machines etc falls below the pre-flashing limit, so in effect you get no change in density. The push processing expected of the 3200 speed film may be why the effect could be noticed?
But still, Guy, you aren't supposed to have exposed film lying about - you are supposed to develop it straight away, collected by motorcycle courier with a coolbox, with a police escort, and rushed to your photolab.
Cesare
Assuming you are right, and that Xray damage is a myth, why does Kodak recommend that their films aren't put through Xray machines?
Try http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4016/f4016.pdf and look at page 19 onwards, describing their Tmax 3200 speed film:
KODAK PROFESSIONAL T-MAX P3200 Film is very
sensitive to environmental radiation; expose and process it
promptly. Request visual inspection of this film at airport
x-ray inspection stations.
They don't sell it in 120 format as it gets fogged by cosmic rays - they only sell it in 35mm canisters. Sure, this is a very high speed B&W film (actually it's ISO 800 which isn't that high) and is typically pushed. But the silver emulsion isn't anything clever, so if there is an affect on this film it will apply to all films? The advice is from 2007 so not that old.
My belief is that for most films the exposure from cosmic rays/xray machines etc falls below the pre-flashing limit, so in effect you get no change in density. The push processing expected of the 3200 speed film may be why the effect could be noticed?
But still, Guy, you aren't supposed to have exposed film lying about - you are supposed to develop it straight away, collected by motorcycle courier with a coolbox, with a police escort, and rushed to your photolab.
Cesare
The film doesn't change sensitivity because you've pushed it. If T-max is very sensitive, it doesn't mean all films are going to be effected as the radiation / whatever may be below the level needed to affect less sensitive films. Sounds like T-max isn't 800 film as 800 speed colour film doesn't have problems with background radiation. I'd guess using it at 800 is pulling the film.
Patrick Dixon
Imagineer
AFAIK there are different specs of X-Ray machines at different (world) airports and some may be worse for film than others. IME in the UK (at least) they won't hand inspect and always make you put it through the machine.
From the above PDF:
EXPOSURE
KODAK PROFESSIONAL T-MAX P3200 Film is specially
designed to be used as a multi-speed film. The speed you
use depends on your application; make tests to determine
the appropriate speed.
The nominal speed is EI 1000 when the film is processed
in KODAK PROFESSIONAL T-MAX Developer or KODAK
PROFESSIONAL T-MAX RS Developer and Replenisher, or
EI 800 when it is processed in other Kodak
black-and-white developers. It was determined in a
manner published in ISO standards. For ease in calculating
exposure and for consistency with the commonly used
scale of film-speed numbers, the nominal speed has been
rounded to EI 800.
Space is the Place
pfm Member
At British airports it was always a pain in the arse getting film through without it being Xray, some of the aurguments ive had!
Its a completely different story in the US, especially LaGuardia, where they deal with lots of photographers and always inspect and test the film manually if asked.
Always carry the film with you, in hand luggage.
Its a completely different story in the US, especially LaGuardia, where they deal with lots of photographers and always inspect and test the film manually if asked.
Always carry the film with you, in hand luggage.
Yes but it is a multi-speed film, so what does 'nominal' speed actually mean? It doesn't mean that it is 800 film, it just means it's a sort of mid point in it's sensitivity, which still allows headroom to push upwards before it starts getting too contrasty. It's going to be far more sensitive than an 800 rated film which isn't designed to be pushed any further, as pushing 800 film beyond Kodak's specified 'limits' is going to make the image more contrasty and possibly grainy. Kodak's pushing specs will mean you still get an image with minimal grain and good dynamic range, rather than when you push tri-x etc. to deliberately get heavy blacks, grain & all that jazz.