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ESL owners - what are you driving them with?

I have had Magnepan MG 12, MC1 and 1.7i in my study, so I may be able to say something about this when my Quad 57s finally get here.
 
Well, I got my Innersounds Electrostatic amplifier back from Coda Technologies. Holy!...Smokes! This doesn't sound like the same amp, it sounds ten times better. The difference is jaw-dropping. I am delighted. I'm done thinking about another amp. But I can't keep from pondering a replacement to my 82/hicap (both were serviced some years ago...)
 
I have had Magnepan MG 12, MC1 and 1.7i in my study, so I may be able to say something about this when my Quad 57s finally get here.

Now for me that will be interesting! You've had a good mix of Maggies there - I assume you got on with them really well despite now going down the Quad 57 route? Please keep me posted I would like to know your opinion. There's a certain something about panels that appeal to me.
 
I confess I have no idea what the "Widget" is that was referred to!

The 'sound' of an ESL57 can be expected to vary when comparing different valve amps as they tend to have (relatively) high output impedances. That interacts with the large variations in ESL57 impedance with frequency to alter the results. Also explains why the choice of transformer tap can matter.

FWIW I've happily used ESL57s, 63s, etc, for decades driven by amps capable of > 200 Wpc. But 'capable' doesn't mean you have to wind them up that high. Just take due care.
 
I confess I have no idea what the "Widget" is that was referred to!

The 'sound' of an ESL57 can be expected to vary when comparing different valve amps as they tend to have (relatively) high output impedances. That interacts with the large variations in ESL57 impedance with frequency to alter the results. Also explains why the choice of transformer tap can matter.

FWIW I've happily used ESL57s, 63s, etc, for decades driven by amps capable of > 200 Wpc. But 'capable' doesn't mean you have to wind them up that high. Just take due care.

This is why Croft works well - they are sort of a valve hybrid design using a mosfet (not transformer) at the output stage.
 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As you recommended, I did the search for Don Sachs and read through his website. His equipment sounds really cool. And it has got me thinking... Kind of wish I hadn't just shipped off my Innersounds amplifier for the recap, because with the packing and shipping that is going to set me back quite a bit. Oh well.

When you get your new amplifier please follow up and share your experience on this forum. I, for one, would be very interested to hear your thoughts. Also, since you seem to be very experienced with tubes, if you haven't read Roger Sanders white paper on tubes vs. solid state, I invite you to do so and would enjoy hearing your thoughts on his comments.

Thanks again for posting on this thread...

Markus


OK ... glad to.
My new amp from Don Sachs will ship Friday.
I’ll be listening next week.

We used to be able to communicate with each other privately ... still tools to do that here or not?

I probably need to go look at the web site on my computer. This phone screen is too ‘small.’

WTS
 
I have ESL 57s and have used Naim 90, Naim 140, and now HeathKit UA-2s. The heathkits are far better to my ears, except for the bass. Rather than shell out for an equally transparent amplifier with better control over the panels - which would be quite expensive actually - I went to a biamplified setup using a First Watt B5 with dipole woofers. This has been really successful and cost effective.
 
Interesting set-up: Heatkit + First Watt B5 crossover + ESL 57s + dipole woofers. Any pictures?
 
Interesting set-up: Heatkit + First Watt B5 crossover + ESL 57s + dipole woofers. Any pictures?

The picture I have handy is from when the basement and my system was under construction, and my woodworking skills are terrible, so the picture so it is a little... humorous. I have wanted to try bi-amping the quads for years, and when the B5 appeared, I couldn't resist.

yW8pDOFgy9FM17Vq1

yW8pDOFgy9FM17Vq1

I can't figure out photo sharing on this site, so look here:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yW8pDOFgy9FM17Vq1


One of the quads needs a panel replaced, and at the moment I've been experimenting with tannoy MG-15s (long story - my father was the original owner and I grew up with them.)
 
I used an Exposure 15 integrated amp for 15 years and it was a great match for the speakers. I replaced them with Tannoy DMT 15’s and put the Quads in storage for nine years. I recently decided to give them a go in my basement, hanging them from the ceiling.

They’re now being driven by an Exposure 18S power amp which is 70 watts per channel. They sound really good and I’m still getting used to how loud I can play them. I sit about 19 feet from them and generally listen in the high 70 dB range though I had them peaking in the mid 80’s recently with some Chic Good Times. They’re fricking great speakers!
 
I have Quad 989's and have had them with various amps, Yamaha AS2000 and Hypex N-core but they are currently run with some DIY class A/B chip amps from this Canadian designer.

https://www.neurochrome.com/parallel-86/

I think the low distortion THD of 0.00020 % @ 1KHz 55W 8Ohm really brings out the best in them.
The N-Cores have similar low THD but being Class A/B the Neurochrome amps have a much smoother mid/top end.

Interestingly I built them as 60 WPC/8 Ohm amps but then bridged them giving double that output which made quite a big improvement.

At least 4 of us on here are using Toms amps with various loudspeakers and all very happy.
 
I haven't heard either but given they are totally different circuit types it's likely to be a similar reason to that raised by Jim earlier:
The 'sound' of an ESL57 can be expected to vary when comparing different valve amps as they tend to have (relatively) high output impedances. That interacts with the large variations in ESL57 impedance with frequency to alter the results. Also explains why the choice of transformer tap can matter.
I have owned a valve integrated that sounds better via a pre than directly connected to the CD player, and this may well be why.
 
The picture I have handy is from when the basement and my system was under construction, and my woodworking skills are terrible, so the picture so it is a little... humorous. I have wanted to try bi-amping the quads for years, and when the B5 appeared, I couldn't resist.

yW8pDOFgy9FM17Vq1

yW8pDOFgy9FM17Vq1

I can't figure out photo sharing on this site, so look here:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yW8pDOFgy9FM17Vq1


One of the quads needs a panel replaced, and at the moment I've been experimenting with tannoy MG-15s (long story - my father was the original owner and I grew up with them.)
I love the Black & Decker equipment rack!- has anyone else ever done this?

Should be in the 'show us your system' thread!
 
So what would you ascribe the smoother mid/top end to?

I have no idea, but it certainly is not distortion.
A full set of test results is at the bottom of the link, Tom worked for Texas instruments and certainly knows what he is doing.

His new design is providing 220W /8 Ohm.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vend...ed-composite-power-amp-extremely-low-thd.html

Many have claimed his amps sound better than the N-Cores with a wide variety of speakers, and cheaper than N-Cores :)

UATVHR97RUBqmA2RhP_MxmNNHAJOJqeLSvKn_HlGuvOrU_ukKEALCOuNkHNHzsTcxKUvVJNoPm6WT9GPx6jrFdfgwZFz6voL8CoRCY9Kp2jIBpfx3A9UQO418-jq5pixA0x47i2-jd-eGDfIozFTE6uGPedBf0vjF-IbV_mC32zh98rMmx17ixLxauXW_P0gkwfnkI06NdYrEqMUVDfuNhXd5BY0y_1GSJSMU2vjINnv_yX754crnrhhJycDgp3psxRFY7iJXGaj2O6QeJuCOYJmvo_77JuTzizbVU3md5NqS774sQMJ4auDxElvw-KQXn-ffPWCW1ncf4Sovx9QgydXgdrU8og7T3O86-Eu5thy6tfbyCBWX-nBiA0sSJbXHo26rqwZEEoZSN2fI0v3SqKQU8LxvXztMDbcbLrJNL7QA6ln7uT5CbENzHkYRpDqNw7zHN2bvF0Hrmhk2HCWqLS4tVWzI512Ua62gb511XsOQEke_H1pTGUDyJArzkDYIM1wgMBQS7nrOwZB3mxarYLoIv2TW7aM9z9mabOl9yO7LoUCTMNXWHVyU33IkegcPf-CYaHgwYAtcwTzWNGv3nFfCUeYSpX2TXx51SU=w884-h663-no


Go build..

Both amps were used with the Bruno Putzeys balanced pre. again near zero distortion.

The biggest surprise to me was going bridged, the additional 60Wpc made a large improvement in lowered noise floor sound stage and bass.
We tried them with a friends NS1000 and the difference between 60 and 120W provided only a subtle difference.
 
I have no idea, but it certainly is not distortion.
A full set of test results is at the bottom of the link, Tom worked for Texas instruments and certainly knows what he is doing.

Interesting - yes, Tom definitely knows what he is doing, but it is interesting that his goal for that amp was specifically extremely low distortion.
 
In order of preference of my experience of various amps driving ESL 57s:

1. Meridian 101/TVA Export
2. Meridian 101/103D
3. Naim 72/250

In my experience there is no doubt that ESL 57s have a certain synergy with valve amps and even now I hanker back to the days of the 10+ years that I lived that system.
 
I'm very happy with the rather unlikely pairing of ESLs and Nait 2. I'd love to try with a suitable power amp and liberate the Nait 2 back to the second system but it may be that the ESLs end up being the speakers on the second system.

I keep wondering how good a DNM PA3^S would be at driving the ESLs. It was a stonkingly good amp in its day....
 


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