ESL owners - what are you driving them with?
- Thread starter naimnut
- Start date
gingermrkettle
Deep vein trombonist
World Designs WD88VA for my ESL63s. I still think that KT88s suit post 57 ESLs more than EL34s.
alanbeeb
pfm Member
Best sound I had from 988s was with a Graaf 5050 valve power amp (Kt88 valves, 50W push-pull) with Audio Synthesis passion passive preamp. Glorious. But domestically the Quads didn't have much chance of staying when I had young kids back then.
I tried ESL57s more recently - and hated them!
I tried ESL57s more recently - and hated them!
Stacked pairs of ESL 57s here, had them 8 years. Quad 405 is nice, a Chinese EL34 based amp (Yaqin MC10) was better and was in the system for many years, replaced this summer with a beastly great Amcron Crown STA2(?) offering far too many watts per channel but sounding fantastic. It is, as ever, nice to have the huge headroom. I've heard of many people running big tranny amps to good effect, just as I have people running EL34 and similar. You just have to be aware of where the volume knob is and make sure that you don't blow the things up. They go loud enough, just don't let teenagers loose on it.
hairyderriere
pfm Member
monstrous lie
Infinitely Baffled
Not strictly on the subject of "what amplifier", but related: do you run your ESLs "Widget-in" or "Widget-out"?
I had been using my ESLs for about 5 years before I decided they would benefit from a visit to One Thing. When I collected them a couple of weeks later the two chaps showed me their Widget gizmos, and like any self-respecting hi-fi nerd I bought a pair, though I didn't have a clue what difference they were supposed to make. I don't remember noticing that much of a difference when I put them into use, though my wife said she did. Fast forward eight years - during which those loudspeakers have been used on and off, sometimes for months at a time - and I hooked them up again today. For speed and simplicity I didn't bother with the Widgets - they were not immediately to hand. Sitting back to listen was a bit disconcerting. Yes, they were still my beautiful old Quads and still had that distinctive clarity and freedom about the sound. But there was something not right. They sounded rather forward and certainly what you would describe as "brightly lit". Bordering on harsh actually. After sitting through a couple of records I decided this was no good and went in search of the Widgets. Well, what a relief - the sound was immediately tamed. All the sparkle and clarity was still there but the loudspeakers simply sounded as if they had relaxed. The music was flowing again. I might not have appreciated exactly what they were bringing to the sound when I first installed them eight years ago, but I certainly do now!
What are other folks' experiences of these gadgets? Are you believers or not? (By the way, are they only for use with 57s, or do the other models benefit from being hooked up to them too?)
ML
I had been using my ESLs for about 5 years before I decided they would benefit from a visit to One Thing. When I collected them a couple of weeks later the two chaps showed me their Widget gizmos, and like any self-respecting hi-fi nerd I bought a pair, though I didn't have a clue what difference they were supposed to make. I don't remember noticing that much of a difference when I put them into use, though my wife said she did. Fast forward eight years - during which those loudspeakers have been used on and off, sometimes for months at a time - and I hooked them up again today. For speed and simplicity I didn't bother with the Widgets - they were not immediately to hand. Sitting back to listen was a bit disconcerting. Yes, they were still my beautiful old Quads and still had that distinctive clarity and freedom about the sound. But there was something not right. They sounded rather forward and certainly what you would describe as "brightly lit". Bordering on harsh actually. After sitting through a couple of records I decided this was no good and went in search of the Widgets. Well, what a relief - the sound was immediately tamed. All the sparkle and clarity was still there but the loudspeakers simply sounded as if they had relaxed. The music was flowing again. I might not have appreciated exactly what they were bringing to the sound when I first installed them eight years ago, but I certainly do now!
What are other folks' experiences of these gadgets? Are you believers or not? (By the way, are they only for use with 57s, or do the other models benefit from being hooked up to them too?)
ML
WillietheSquid
pfm Member
Quad 57s, IME, sound significantly different with different amps. I would guess that this experience is common ... which is why there is so much commentary on the subject. Quad 63s, IME, present less variability, but require a significantly more powerful amplifier to sound 'big' without compression.
Quad 57s in order of preference: Citation II (in triode mode), Quad IIs, Avondale 260, Nait II or Nait V, Quad Elite Integrated.
Quad 63s, in order of preference: (I have tried with far fewer amplifiers with these speakers): Citation II (in triode mode), Quad Elite Integrated, Quad IIs, Nait II.
I could live with either the Nait II or the Quad IIs driving the 57s, but not with the 63s, for lack of power in my open 20' x 24' x 18" living room.
I am waiting for delivery of a new KT-88 amplifier from Don Sachs, out of BC Canada. Google Don Sachs Consulting. Don has rebuilt more Citation II amps than just about anybody. After he has implemented the McShane power supply upgrades & added his own tweaks and part choices, they are extraordinary amps. And, he says, his KT-88 amplifier is noticeably better. I await.
WTS
naimnut
Deep in the Mines of Soul
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As you recommended, I did the search for Don Sachs and read through his website. His equipment sounds really cool. And it has got me thinking... Kind of wish I hadn't just shipped off my Innersounds amplifier for the recap, because with the packing and shipping that is going to set me back quite a bit. Oh well.
When you get your new amplifier please follow up and share your experience on this forum. I, for one, would be very interested to hear your thoughts. Also, since you seem to be very experienced with tubes, if you haven't read Roger Sanders white paper on tubes vs. solid state, I invite you to do so and would enjoy hearing your thoughts on his comments.
Thanks again for posting on this thread...
Markus
Tony L
Administrator
As I understand it they basically add a little output impedance to the amp to make it sound more like a tube amp or Quad 303 (which is capacitor-coupled so has a bit). This doesn’t just apply to Quads IME, but any speaker designed in that era, e.g. vintage Klipsch, Tannoy, Lowther and pretty much every tube-era speaker just sounds plain wrong connected to a highly damped and tight modern solid state amp. They were obviously voiced for the electronics of their era.
Jim (Audiomisc) did the math as to why the 303 works so well with the ESL, it can be found here. I’m pretty sure the Widgets work from this thinking.
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
Best I've heard , and in the context of not trying to be impressed simply by volume and bass slam etc but by naturalness and subtlety, possibly ever, was a really fit set of 57's driven by a Leak Stereo 20 which I had completely gone overboard with for a good mate and had fitted regulated supplies for every stage.. including the main output stage. It sounded amazing! Best I've ever heard "No one cares" by Frank Sinatra. Source was a high end Marantz CD player.. it was white... Can't remember model
Bedini 25/25 or even a 10/10 is supposed to be a very good match.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/13900970/...nding-right-amp-perfect-speaker/#.WiWIyzJLGjs
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/13900970/...nding-right-amp-perfect-speaker/#.WiWIyzJLGjs
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Rosewind
Lost in Translation
Great read! Lists a host of good valve and solid state options - old and new. Thanks for sharing.
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George J
Herefordshire member
My ownership of ESL 57s goes back seven years.
Initially driven with a Naim NAIT 5i [superb], I then tried out an unserviced Naim NAIT 1, which was less fine. I suspect that it was needing a thorough rebuild, so the comparison was possibly unfair. The next amplifier was the Naim NAP 100, which was actually better than the 5i by a worthwhile margin, though no more powerful as I undesrtand it.
But the real joy came when i finally parted with the first pair of ESLs [1960 and 1868, and fully serviced by One Thing Audio], and bought a 1957 made ESL in mint condition, serviced at Huntingdon in 2016, and drove this with a single Quad II Forty. This was something so completely different that one could well be staggered by the superior quality.
I have a plan to get a Leak TL 12.1 in place of the rather too powerful Quad amp.
The original ESL needs a stable amp with low distortion, but it actually benefits nothing from more Watts than strictly necessary. One ESL is a brilliant speaker for mono, which is arguably much better than stereo for naturally recorded music of acoustic [as opposed to amplified electrical] instruments. Basically it is a speaker best suited to classical music ... IMO
Just two pence’ worth, George
Initially driven with a Naim NAIT 5i [superb], I then tried out an unserviced Naim NAIT 1, which was less fine. I suspect that it was needing a thorough rebuild, so the comparison was possibly unfair. The next amplifier was the Naim NAP 100, which was actually better than the 5i by a worthwhile margin, though no more powerful as I undesrtand it.
But the real joy came when i finally parted with the first pair of ESLs [1960 and 1868, and fully serviced by One Thing Audio], and bought a 1957 made ESL in mint condition, serviced at Huntingdon in 2016, and drove this with a single Quad II Forty. This was something so completely different that one could well be staggered by the superior quality.
I have a plan to get a Leak TL 12.1 in place of the rather too powerful Quad amp.
The original ESL needs a stable amp with low distortion, but it actually benefits nothing from more Watts than strictly necessary. One ESL is a brilliant speaker for mono, which is arguably much better than stereo for naturally recorded music of acoustic [as opposed to amplified electrical] instruments. Basically it is a speaker best suited to classical music ... IMO
Just two pence’ worth, George
Rosewind
Lost in Translation
Oh no. Now you have really got me thinking about how that BTH A1A valve power amp from the beginning of the 60s would sound on my forthcoming Quad ESL 57s ...
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beammeup
pfm Member
One really obvious answer here would be Croft amplification! Glenn himself has driven stacked Quads (that's one Quad on top of the other in Stereo, resulting the in the use of 4 Quads) with his amplification - the bonus is that Croft sounds brilliant too. I'm using Croft pre 25 / Power 7 driving a pair of panel speakers in the form of Magnepan MG-1's to very good effect. I recommend Croft highly.
I've been meaning to ask at some point - have anyone compared Maggies with ESL's, because I "really" like the Magnepan sound so I wonder if the British built Quads have similar characteristics (being box-less panel speakers)? The bonus of Maggies is that you don't have to plug them in.
I've been meaning to ask at some point - have anyone compared Maggies with ESL's, because I "really" like the Magnepan sound so I wonder if the British built Quads have similar characteristics (being box-less panel speakers)? The bonus of Maggies is that you don't have to plug them in.