ESL 63 panel refurbishment?
- Thread starter Dowser
- Start date
Dowser
Learning to bodge again..
Weird sizzling came back, but very intermittently - strange.
Anyhow, conductive tape arrived yesterday, so tonight was the night. I should start by saying while doing this work I was sure I was going to go burn in hell - why on earth did I only order one strip of tape, why didn't I try a test application first, blah, blah, blah.
Anyhow, tape is double sided sticky, and only conducts from one side to the other, and only straight up and down - so a little bit of pressure is required top to bottom. I tested a small portion, wow - it works with my DVM! But tape is a complete and utter bastard to remove the backing from cleanly - no matter which side you try and separate first, the other side wants to peel away - f*ck!
Also, it means I deployed tin foil to the top side - tin foil in an ESL panel? Hence me thinking I'm going to burn in hell...
See photos below, I got better as I went along, but the stuff is still a complete pig to work with - I would have tried my heat gun on it but was concerned about damaging the mylar.
The tape itself;
Here you can see how it loves to separate from it's backing;
First repair done... badly;
Second one - also bad (but stuff is only 4 micron thick, plus the cooking foil);
Tin foil applied fat edges trimmed after);
By the third one I'd sussed how to get tape down cleanly by running the backing back d forth over the tape until it stuck down properly;
Tape with one side removed;
With backing removed;
Foil over top;
Fourth repair with just tape on - forgot to take more photos, sorry! Again I had problems removing backing, bastard tape!
Bolt back together, refit panel, switch on, expect sparky fireworks - nope, dead silent from switch on, plays music fine
Playing sharp edged Lamb right now at indecent volume. Obviously, I need to check it every few months see how it's holding up, but maybe this is a viable way of getting more life out of panels splitting at their top edge. I suspect it mostly effects the old black panels as they have no bracing clips along the outside edge to hold the plastic halves together, I'm going to invest in some small bulldog clips
I also pick up a 2nd pair of stands tomorrow - I always wanted mine higher than the original stands I have, lets see if double the height is too much I also visited a big fabric site (etsy.com) and have tried ordering some tubular material as replacement socks - €20 delivered for enough material for 2 - purple, but who cares - if it works I'll find some Orange instead, LOL!
Richard
Anyhow, conductive tape arrived yesterday, so tonight was the night. I should start by saying while doing this work I was sure I was going to go burn in hell - why on earth did I only order one strip of tape, why didn't I try a test application first, blah, blah, blah.
Anyhow, tape is double sided sticky, and only conducts from one side to the other, and only straight up and down - so a little bit of pressure is required top to bottom. I tested a small portion, wow - it works with my DVM! But tape is a complete and utter bastard to remove the backing from cleanly - no matter which side you try and separate first, the other side wants to peel away - f*ck!
Also, it means I deployed tin foil to the top side - tin foil in an ESL panel? Hence me thinking I'm going to burn in hell...
See photos below, I got better as I went along, but the stuff is still a complete pig to work with - I would have tried my heat gun on it but was concerned about damaging the mylar.
The tape itself;
Here you can see how it loves to separate from it's backing;
First repair done... badly;
Second one - also bad (but stuff is only 4 micron thick, plus the cooking foil);
Tin foil applied fat edges trimmed after);
By the third one I'd sussed how to get tape down cleanly by running the backing back d forth over the tape until it stuck down properly;
Tape with one side removed;
With backing removed;
Foil over top;
Fourth repair with just tape on - forgot to take more photos, sorry! Again I had problems removing backing, bastard tape!
Bolt back together, refit panel, switch on, expect sparky fireworks - nope, dead silent from switch on, plays music fine
Playing sharp edged Lamb right now at indecent volume. Obviously, I need to check it every few months see how it's holding up, but maybe this is a viable way of getting more life out of panels splitting at their top edge. I suspect it mostly effects the old black panels as they have no bracing clips along the outside edge to hold the plastic halves together, I'm going to invest in some small bulldog clips I also pick up a 2nd pair of stands tomorrow - I always wanted mine higher than the original stands I have, lets see if double the height is too much
I also visited a big fabric site (etsy.com) and have tried ordering some tubular material as replacement socks - €20 delivered for enough material for 2 - purple, but who cares - if it works I'll find some Orange instead, LOL!Richard
misterdog
Not the canine kind
I'm going to invest in some small bulldog clips
I've never seen the black matrix in the flesh, it looks as if the plastic may be thicker so those bulldog clips may not fit.
I always wanted mine higher than the original stands I have, lets see if double the height is too much
The feet give a 3 degree tilt back to aim the centre at ear height, mine are set vertical but with the centre of the panel at ear height.
Just bought a DAC with THD+N 0.000058%
The less distortion you feed them the more sublime they sing.Slamming the Lamb - 5 currently..
Looks like you may have invented a good work around for failing membranes there.
Dowser
Learning to bodge again..
I've never seen the black matrix in the flesh, it looks as if the plastic may be thicker so those bulldog clips may not fit.
The feet give a 3 degree tilt back to aim the centre at ear height, mine are set vertical but with the centre of the panel at ear height.
Just bought a DAC with THD+N 0.000058%
Slamming the Lamb - 5 currently..
Looks like you may have invented a good work around for failing membranes there.
Sure I can find some small bulldogs to fit, haven’t searched yet. On the stands, yeah, I use spikes to make them (Almost) vertical again - I’ll just use a spacer at back when I stack them to maintain original Tilt, and assume when middle of panel is at ear height vertical gives best sound (certainly true with 57s and long legged stands).
On the repair, let’s see if it’s still functional in 6 months - it’s still rather bodgtastic, but is still working after 24 hours (I was in office on a rare trip today, forgot to turn speaker off before leaving house this morning...place wasn’t burnt down when I got home
).cheers, Richard
PS: Good to find another Lamb enthusiast, stunning music!
Great thread... I got 4 pairs of ESL 63 in storage, all with various pops and clicks. Reading this has inspired me to attempt some repairs when I have a few spare evenings as these things are truly excellent when ‘on song’ . Hopefully I can resurrect at least a couple of pairs
misterdog
Not the canine kind
That was what I thought, turned out to be a few spare weeks.
Stacked 63's ?
Haha, stacked 63’s has always been an aim, but need to learn how to walk before I attempt to sprint.
I have torn down one pair so familiar with the procedure and even bought the refurb kit from Australia but could never get the Mylar to stretch without breaking. On the one occasion that I did, the glue did not stick it to the frames so gave it up as a bad job and bought some B&W N800’s
double stacked even? But think I’d need a good ozone filter...
Dowser
Learning to bodge again..
Finally found some decent sock material, removed the dust covers from second speaker, and re-glued it too (it wasn't as bad as first speaker, just top panel a little loose);
Removal of dust covers on right hand speaker is just incredible - I never realised it was particularly unbalanced after doing the first one 5 or so months ago, but god, it's just a SNAP back into focus - incredible!
Removal of dust covers on right hand speaker is just incredible - I never realised it was particularly unbalanced after doing the first one 5 or so months ago, but god, it's just a SNAP back into focus - incredible!
Dowser
Learning to bodge again..
So, my bodgetastic conductive tape repair bought me nearly 2 more years of operation - but enough is enough...a few months ago I started switching off the poorly speaker when not in use as it has a habit of spitting at me as I walk past it to get out of the room (I assume body static) - last few nights it's regularly spitting and farting again.
So, time for 2 new bass panels (I replace both top bass panels rather than risk an imbalance of only doing one) - before I shell out the £200 each Quad want for new ones (Rob Flain still works for Quad! - he responded to my email within 20 mins), does anyone have a couple of spare bass panels they'd like to sell?
Thanks, Richard
So, time for 2 new bass panels (I replace both top bass panels rather than risk an imbalance of only doing one) - before I shell out the £200 each Quad want for new ones (Rob Flain still works for Quad! - he responded to my email within 20 mins
), does anyone have a couple of spare bass panels they'd like to sell?Thanks, Richard
@Dowser - its not hard to do, but you need to make some things to be able to do it. You need the mylar, coating, space to work (a big dining room table is ideal!) and a few jigs depending on how you do it. If you want to be self sufficient with 63s, then I highly recommend buying a kit from ER audio in Oz. Everything including instructions in the kit..... and you'll have enough to do your pair twice over.
I've done 3 sets here (my own and one more for a buddy) and the results are excellent. I also finally went though the stacked quads and refurbished them too, luckily they didn't need diaphragms, but they needed plenty of attention.
I'm (not urgently) keeping an eye out for 4 dead bass panels to refurbish.
I've done 3 sets here (my own and one more for a buddy) and the results are excellent. I also finally went though the stacked quads and refurbished them too, luckily they didn't need diaphragms, but they needed plenty of attention.
I'm (not urgently) keeping an eye out for 4 dead bass panels to refurbish.
Dowser
Learning to bodge again..
New panels arrived over a week ago, only now had time to fit them (photos below) - I guess I also missed that I did fit small bulldog clips to better secure the top of the FUBAR bass panel - that also bought me an additional 6 months...and maybe more if I'd fitted them immediately rather than waiting for it to start fizzing again
New white panels have serial numbers! They also let much more sound out due to larger wholes in plastic frame (maybe). Swapping straightforward - biggest issue is the wire links between the panels - the white panel solder points are like 2mms further aware than the black panels - no big deal, but means you also need to re-position wire link on top treble panel...I hate soldering around these damn things
Anyhow - how do they sound? Same as a before, but without the spitting and farting from the faulty panel - maybe a little more detail, but they sounded great before and still do. More amazing is they still sounded so good with a FUBAR panel - I try and split it open tomorrow - I expect a real dogs dinner
The son of the guy who designed my SEs has been busily rebuilding panels and has offered to rebuild these for me (He has 57s, 63s and 29x's all wired up in a small bedroom with an amp his Dad built - wall of sound level 10!), so they're likely taking a long trip to Australia.
LOL - sooo much more glue on the new panels...wonder why
Old and new - bigger Squares in the new frames
You need to swap this wire to the new panel - it's also around 2-3mm difference, but no issues
First done
Last half way
Beautiful music with no spits or farts again
An expensive exercise for me, £450 with shipping (plus any tax bill I have not yet received...) - I only paid €450 for them in Dublin back in 2009 or 2010. But worth it, I cannot imagine any other speaker anywhere near the price delivering this level of satisfaction.
To confirm mods: input electrolytic replaced with film and smaller electro, metals grilles gone, clingfilm dust covers gone, raised way up high
Richard
New white panels have serial numbers! They also let much more sound out due to larger wholes in plastic frame (maybe
). Swapping straightforward - biggest issue is the wire links between the panels - the white panel solder points are like 2mms further aware than the black panels - no big deal, but means you also need to re-position wire link on top treble panel...I hate soldering around these damn things Anyhow - how do they sound? Same as a before, but without the spitting and farting from the faulty panel - maybe a little more detail, but they sounded great before and still do. More amazing is they still sounded so good with a FUBAR panel - I try and split it open tomorrow - I expect a real dogs dinner
The son of the guy who designed my SEs has been busily rebuilding panels and has offered to rebuild these for me (He has 57s, 63s and 29x's all wired up in a small bedroom with an amp his Dad built - wall of sound level 10!), so they're likely taking a long trip to Australia.
LOL - sooo much more glue on the new panels...wonder why
Old and new - bigger Squares in the new frames
You need to swap this wire to the new panel - it's also around 2-3mm difference, but no issues
First done
Last half way
Beautiful music with no spits or farts again
An expensive exercise for me, £450 with shipping (plus any tax bill I have not yet received...) - I only paid €450 for them in Dublin back in 2009 or 2010. But worth it, I cannot imagine any other speaker anywhere near the price delivering this level of satisfaction.
To confirm mods: input electrolytic replaced with film and smaller electro, metals grilles gone, clingfilm dust covers gone, raised way up high
Richard