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Discussion in 'off topic' started by Mullardman, Mar 20, 2021.

  1. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    This man is an absolute bastard.

    With all due respect to our Muslim membership.. Erdogan is clearly an Islamist extremist who is determined to take Turkey back to pre-Ataturk days. What possible justification does he have for withdrawing from the European Treaty Against Violence?

    Ever since this piece of shit gained power I have urged all to avoid visiting or doing business with Turkey until it rejoins the Western Democratic World.

  2. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    No, you have it about right there.
    TheDecameron, topa and Mullardman like this.
  3. Somafunk

    Somafunk pfm Member

    Nothing else to add regarding erdogan from myself that you haven’t already said apart from I really feel sorry for the current situation and the people I met out there 20 years ago, spent 6 months with my gf “slowly” touring around parts of the country on a 100cc scooter, absolutely loved the place and the hospitality we received from all whom we met and stayed with would put any western country to shame, really sad to see the direction the country has taken over the previous few years.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
    Weekender, MikeMA, Snufkin and 3 others like this.
  4. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    He started well and Turkey thrived for the first half of his time in power but became increasingly authoritarian and paranoid.
    In mitigation he has had a ring side seat for the destruction of Iraq, Syria and Libya; and the coup attempt against him almost certainly had CIA/Israel components.
    Foolish to quit the European Accord Against Violence Against Women but Poland is considering doing the same. Anti-homosexual rather than anti-women. Religious types are weird...
    It would be better if he retired now.
  5. LecsonQuad

    LecsonQuad pfm Member

    Nothing to discuss Mull.

    You are absolutely correct.
  6. Suffolk Tony

    Suffolk Tony Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.

    Well, if you're talking about the same bloke who owned a corner tobacconist and newsagent in Surbiton, he was actually a pretty decent bloke when you got to know him.
  7. Rodrat

    Rodrat pfm Member

    I crossed Turkey and Egypt off holiday destinations for the same reason. Unfortunately it is the ordinary people who lose out.
  8. mikemusic

    mikemusic pfm Member

    He's dangerous. Ditto Sisi - and too many others
  9. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    Be careful what you wish for. Fundamental Islamic parties running Turkey and Egypt will do more than take them off your holiday list.
  10. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    There is nothing fundamentalist about Turkey and Egypt is the opposite, suppressing the religious parties.
  11. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

    Almost nothing that gets labelled as fundementalism, is anything to do with fundemental Islaam. 99.9(+)% of people using the phrase, not here especially, but generally, have not a clue about Islaam or what fundementalist Islaam might mean. It is just bone-idleness.

    That said, religious government is never a good idea. Secular government strongly influenced by religious teachings and beliefs almost always is.
    davidsrsb likes this.
  12. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Pending

    I agree with the first part, but not convinced on the second. Perhaps it depends what you would class as ‘religious teachings’. I certainly think that a lot of the US’s troubles can be laid at the door of the religious right wing.
  13. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    Shoe in for player of the year.
  14. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

    I very strongly suspect that you are not thinking of religious teachings, but of custom, practise, myth, legend, bigotry and a whole host of other things. For instance, an extremely large proportion of the headline "goings-on" of the so-caled Islaamic State are absolutely harram - people convert to Islaam voluntarily or not at all, proselytizing is harram, maltreatment of anyone at all is harram, summary executions are harram, Judaism and Christianity in particular are regarded as valid and parallel religions by Islaam, just not quite as "good" as Islaam - they share the Old Testament as a holy text. Jesus, Isa, is an Islaamic prophet, though not the son of God, but born of a virgin birth.

    Just a very few examples.

    Anything that drifts from what the handful of holy books in this world state, and they all state VERY similar things, is not religious teachings.
  15. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    SE Asian countries that are not communist, are definitely strongly faith guided, even Singapore.
    Western Europe is the outlier.
  16. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Like Sue, I have no prob. with your first statement, as theocracies are always bad news, but not sure what religion and governance have in common; they should certainly be separate entities. It's a strange government that is secular, though their governance may well allow a secular outlook to religion.

    The Chinese government is generally supposed to be devoid of religious following; maybe atheist or agnostic, yet the religion of the vast majority of the Han Chinese is Buddhism. But is Buddhism a religion or simply a way of thinking or life? They certainly don't look kindly on Islamic beliefs within their borders. Burma, India, Indonesia, et al; it's still happening, though Islam does seem to have been a bigger catalyst for bloodshed etc. than most since the 7th century.

    It's hard to know if most of the world's killing sprees have been caused by tribal or religious antipathies; my guess is the latter.
  17. Cav

    Cav pfm Member

    You might be correct in theory I am not an expert on Islam. What is clear is that experts on Islam do not themselves agree what is or is not acceptable.

    In practice, it does not matter. What matters is what a sectarian state says is or is not appropriate.
    Mullardman likes this.
  18. kensalriser

    kensalriser pfm Member

    Just another fascistic scumbag and one who has used religion as a vehicle to achieve power, as is the norm. But religion isn't the problem, people are.
    Mullardman and Suffolk Tony like this.
  19. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    I am a Sunni, in a notionally Islamic state, with large Christian, Hindu and Buddhist minorities who are constitutionally free to practice.
  20. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

    It is nothing to do with theory. What I posted are facts, readily extracted from any of the Islaamic holy books.
    What true learned, level-headed Muslims will agree on is that the VAST majority of what so-called Muslims have done in the name of Islaam in recent times, has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Islaamic teachings.

    I very well remember when the London underground attempted bomber was caught and pinned to the floor, the recording was played on R4 - somebody shouted at him in a broad London accent - "You ain't no Muslim, bruvver, you ain't no Muslim". Now, that is harsh, as the Qur'an says that no person should stand in judgement of another (in respect of religious adherence etc.), judgement will happen elsewhere.

    You mean just like Judaism and Christianity, and Hinduism, and.......................

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