advertisement


Epos ES11 vs. ES12 vs M12/.2

Thats interesting, the m5i really are a great speaker and a compact size, I also find them a lot less fussy than the other epos like the es series, as in you can use them with a wider range of amps/sources/rooms/positions and they still sound good. But I would give the ultimate finesse to the larger es (and possibly 'm' models) given the right circumstances. But as you say the crossover is supposedly more complex with the 5s.

Not seen many reviews for the i's, I don't think they had as much of a run life as all the models that proceeded them.


one thing I would like to see is how the cabinet is made as they weigh a ton dont they. I hauled my pair in the original box back across London, 20kg, lol never again, I dont know how many times I stopped to get a breether... I understand they have some kind of shielding in them so they could be used with audiovisual equipment.
 
one thing I would like to see is how the cabinet is made as they weigh a ton dont they. I hauled my pair in the original box back across London, 20kg, lol never again, I dont know how many times I stopped to get a breether... I understand they have some kind of shielding in them so they could be used with audiovisual equipment.
Oh yes, the 'Mi' s cabinets weigh a ton even the 5s. They were substantially heavier built, but not necessarily better.
 
I have a pair of 14s, now about 23 years old, paired with naim 272/250. I haven't auditioned other speakers for an absolute age so it might be interesting to see if/how things have changed. My 14s have been great & my only issue is with the bass which is appearing best about 2 foot behind my listening position....most probably down to room/positioning otherwise they really sing.
 
A friend had the caps replaced in his old 14

Much better but the bas performance was really hard to get at a satisfying level without the bungs in.

Hence why I'd choose ES11 if I should

Better to have slightly less bas than too much and too loose
 
A friend had the caps replaced in his old 14

Much better but the bas performance was really hard to get at a satisfying level without the bungs in.

Hence why I'd choose ES11 if I should

Better to have slightly less bas than too much and too loose

epos are one speaker that bungs just ruin if you ask me!

They have no crossover, their whole design is a natural crossover, and they are designed purely as a vented, reflex enclosure. Sealed boxes work so much differently. I understand what you say about the bass issue but if that's the case I wouldn't use them in that situation. Bunging them just loses what they are all about. I've experimented myself with some models but it's like your taking away most of the detail and killing that glorious midrange that they are famous for, it's like restricting the speaker from what its trying to do. This is what I say about them being fussy, its not only with equipment but it's with position and room also. I've ended up putting es11's into storage before even because they just would not work as they should 'in a very small room'. Bungs in epos is like putting dumper truck tyres on a Rolls Royce, just don't :D save them in storage, sell or just get something else.

Interesting what you say about the capacitors on the tweeters also. I wouldn't know where to start with that one. I realise that electrical capacitor do wear out with time, but I wouldn't have a clue what to replace them with, or again to mess with their balance of sound from their original ones.
 
epos are one speaker that bungs just ruin if you ask me!

They have no crossover, their whole design is a natural crossover, and they are designed purely as a vented, reflex enclosure. Sealed boxes work so much differently. I understand what you say about the bass issue but if that's the case I wouldn't use them in that situation. Bunging them just loses what they are all about. I've experimented myself with some models but it's like your taking away most of the detail and killing that glorious midrange that they are famous for, it's like restricting the speaker from what its trying to do. This is what I say about them being fussy, its not only with equipment but it's with position and room also. I've ended up putting es11's into storage before even because they just would not work as they should 'in a very small room'. Bungs in epos is like putting dumper truck tyres on a Rolls Royce, just don't :D save them in storage, sell or just get something else.

Interesting what you say about the capacitors on the tweeters also. I wouldn't know where to start with that one. I realise that electrical capacitor do wear out with time, but I wouldn't have a clue what to replace them with, or again to mess with their balance of sound from their original ones.

But they aren't a vented/reflex design, they're Aperiodic so the bung is essential. Fair enough if you prefer them without, but that isn't intended.
 
But they aren't a vented/reflex design, they're Aperiodic so the bung is essential. Fair enough if you prefer them without, but that isn't intended.

Are they ? I thought they were reflex designs as they look like and they are described as having a reflex port, but you may be right. But I've never seen in any reviews or literature about them being used with bungs. I'd like to hear Robin Marshall's opinion on it.

I wouldn't use them at all with bungs personally, I'd rather not have them. But as with everything, everyone has a preference and are free to do whatever they want with their hi-fi.

http://www.eposltd.com/archive-download/Epos-ES11.pdf
 
They came with bungs, and initially they were glued in so you couldn't remove them, but i think they changed that so that you could if you liked.
 
They came with bungs, and initially they were glued in so you couldn't remove them, but i think they changed that so that you could if you liked.

That's odd when they quote 'A space of about 20cm is required behind the loudspeaker to allow proper operation of the rear-firing reflex port'. It would have been an interesting one to ask them, but I think they've moved on since then.
 
I've had my ES14s a long time, 1985??. Early ones with glued in bungs. They've seen amps, turntables etc and homes come and go. I've got them to sing, Ive got them to sound crap, the most perfidious speakers ever made, but I love them. I reckon they've never sounded better than they do now, just wonderful. I wont bore you, but the power amp and source must be good, they are unforgiving of anything downstream that is lacking. Also placement in the room. God, the time I've spent moving them, and furniture etc to get them to sing, a few degrees of toe in or tilt up/down, distance apart, distance in front ref seating position, distance from back wall, distance from side wall etc. Bungs out for me and, surprisingly close to the wall, slight toe in, tweeters absolutely at ear level. 1.7m apart, sweet spot 2m back, side walls 1.5 m either side, back wall 1.5m behind seating position, it's a small very old stone house, low ceiling, carpets and soft furnishings, tiny windows. Most people comment, when they hear, where is the bass? I say, listen, can you actually hear what the bassist is playing? Kick drum? Can you hear the pedal as it hits the skin? Can you follow the left hand of the piano? Can you feel rather than hear the 32" organ pipe? believe me, there is no overblown bass booming and masking the detail in the low registers.
 
I've had my ES14s a long time, 1985??. Early ones with glued in bungs. They've seen amps, turntables etc and homes come and go. I've got them to sing, Ive got them to sound crap, the most perfidious speakers ever made, but I love them. I reckon they've never sounded better than they do now, just wonderful. I wont bore you, but the power amp and source must be good, they are unforgiving of anything downstream that is lacking. Also placement in the room. God, the time I've spent moving them, and furniture etc to get them to sing, a few degrees of toe in or tilt up/down, distance apart, distance in front ref seating position, distance from back wall, distance from side wall etc. Bungs out for me and, surprisingly close to the wall, slight toe in, tweeters absolutely at ear level. 1.7m apart, sweet spot 2m back, side walls 1.5 m either side, back wall 1.5m behind seating position, it's a small very old stone house, low ceiling, carpets and soft furnishings, tiny windows. Most people comment, when they hear, where is the bass? I say, listen, can you actually hear what the bassist is playing? Kick drum? Can you hear the pedal as it hits the skin? Can you follow the left hand of the piano? Can you feel rather than hear the 32" organ pipe? believe me, there is no overblown bass booming and masking the detail in the low registers.

Wow, sounds great! What source and amplification are you using out of interest?

and your description really does make a lot of sense, epos speakers are strange beasts.
 
I've had my ES14s a long time, 1985??. Early ones with glued in bungs. They've seen amps, turntables etc and homes come and go. I've got them to sing, Ive got them to sound crap, the most perfidious speakers ever made, but I love them. I reckon they've never sounded better than they do now, just wonderful. I wont bore you, but the power amp and source must be good, they are unforgiving of anything downstream that is lacking. Also placement in the room. God, the time I've spent moving them, and furniture etc to get them to sing, a few degrees of toe in or tilt up/down, distance apart, distance in front ref seating position, distance from back wall, distance from side wall etc. Bungs out for me and, surprisingly close to the wall, slight toe in, tweeters absolutely at ear level. 1.7m apart, sweet spot 2m back, side walls 1.5 m either side, back wall 1.5m behind seating position, it's a small very old stone house, low ceiling, carpets and soft furnishings, tiny windows. Most people comment, when they hear, where is the bass? I say, listen, can you actually hear what the bassist is playing? Kick drum? Can you hear the pedal as it hits the skin? Can you follow the left hand of the piano? Can you feel rather than hear the 32" organ pipe? believe me, there is no overblown bass booming and masking the detail in the low registers.

Interestingly, I have my es14s 5ft apart and 6ft from the sweet spot with a bit of toe-in...

BB
 
One day I'll get round to posting a system photo, but for those interested, LP12, pre circus, Sole mkvii subchassis-armboard, Hercules psu, Ittok (late II), Denon DL110, Linn Genki, Beresford Caiman SEG dac-latest model, Revox A77iv, Uher 4400 Stereo, Akai 4000DS, Linn Pekin, Naim 32.5 pre, last of the line 72 boards,some serious component upgrades here and there, mainly capacitors, HiCap with Teddyregs and new caps, monoblock Naim 110 powerer amps with component and circuit tweaks. Decent but not expensive cables!
 
They came with bungs, and initially they were glued in so you couldn't remove them, but i think they changed that so that you could if you liked.

I had some ES11 I bought used, I assumed the seller made the yellow sponge plugs himself. Come to thing of it, they did fit rather well!

After a stint with some Castle speakers ("coffins", my GF of the time called them) I moved on to JM Lab Electra 905, and in retrospect the ES11 resolves at lot less detail. They are beautifully musical speaker though I enjoyed them greatly.

Hankered after the ES22/ES25..
 
Just looking at a popular auction site, a pair of ES14 recently sold for £18.93!
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
I have 11s, 12s, 14s and 30s. I prefer the 12s to the 11s, and use those on the end of an A&R A60 in my office system. The 14s are on the end of a 32.5/HiCap/250 in a bedroom system, and the 30s on the end of a 250.2.

I have a pair of 12's in my office too, at the end of a Musical Fidelity A1.
 
Btw...they came to me in it's original box with all the protective stuff but no grill/cover. The seller said they came that way. As I have yet to come across any ES11/12 grill for sale, I have decided to fashion a pair out of light but stiff cardboard material wedded onto some fabric that drapes over the front of the speakers. At least...that's the idea. :)
 
I owned ES12's first and liked them a lot, so much in fact that they had me wondering how good the original Robin Marshal ES11's were. I managed to pick up a pair that were cosmetically near perfect (on Google images they are the first you'll see) so I was able to make a direct comparison between them.

The two speakers have an almost identical tonal balance, legendary midrange as you'd expect, but the ES12 having a slightly fuller and softer bass. Compared to the ES11's though they do not resolve as much inner detail, do not image as precisely, nor do they sound as rhythmically fast. Sample variation perhaps? Well no as I bought a second pair of ES12's in order to get some dedicated open frame stands and again I felt they were actually a step backwards from the ES11, I heard the exact same deficiencies in comparison to the ES11. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of the Epos stands, they really tighten up the sound and make them a much more focused sounding speaker, together they work as a system.

3G8A4301.jpg
3G8A5155.jpg


ES12 on top of Epos ES11. ES11 sitting on their dedicated stands.

I've just recently picked up a pair of 12s in addition to my 11s as I've always wanted to compare. And it's a tough one trying to decide between the two. In my opinion, there is no clear winner. I find the 11s perhaps easier to listen to and the 12s just give a bit more. I personally thought the 12s had more detail and resolution, handled dynamics better and go lower with more information in the bass, but the 11s do just sound nice. The 12s sound like a slightly brighter, shinier, more modern set of 11s, which is exactly what they are, technically and fidelity wise the 12s are better I suppose but the 11s are just gorgeous sounding speakers, and possibly a touch more natural tonaly. Its been fun comparing. Also the 11s are easier to listen to louder, but they're not better you still get more with the 12s, especially that bass there does seem to be a fair bit more which seems much more limited on the 11s, the 11s are more one note'y ish (but its not bad, just nit picking), but the 12s were much better for a low-level listening I thought. All just my opinion of course :)

And you're right, the genuine stands are a must!

Now I wonder how they sound in comparison to the M12 :D No, I'm not going there as well.
 


advertisement


Back
Top