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Epos ES11 vs. ES12 vs M12/.2

If you like the es-11s and the es-22s, you really need to try the es-14s. I had es-22s for years and liked them a lot. Found a minty pair of es-14s, and have had them for 10 years. All driven with 52/250, the es-22s couldn't match the es-14s for coherence. The es-22s had deeper bass, but the es-14s sounded more like real music. The es-14s make you stop analyzing things like tonality or bass response, etc, and just pull you into the music. Everyone hears differently, and no two rooms are the same, but for me, it's es-14s all the way.

Agree wrt the "M" series. Not even close.

BB
 
I have 11s, 12s, 14s and 30s. I prefer the 12s to the 11s, and use those on the end of an A&R A60 in my office system. The 14s are on the end of a 32.5/HiCap/250 in a bedroom system, and the 30s on the end of a 250.2 in the lounge.

My "desert island" system would be the 32.5/HiCap/250/14s although I think the 30s are a better speaker. When I auditioned the 30s against the 22s I far, far preferred the 30s.
 
If you like the es-11s and the es-22s, you really need to try the es-14s. I had es-22s for years and liked them a lot. Found a minty pair of es-14s, and have had them for 10 years. All driven with 52/250, the es-22s couldn't match the es-14s for coherence. The es-22s had deeper bass, but the es-14s sounded more like real music. The es-14s make you stop analyzing things like tonality or bass response, etc, and just pull you into the music. Everyone hears differently, and no two rooms are the same, but for me, it's es-14s all the way.

Agree wrt the "M" series. Not even close.

BB

I have never considered owning the es14's but I have heard them, yes they are very good but the main reason for me not owning is they are 'big' for standmounts, just found them a bit awkward looking domestically. If I ever have a mancave though I'd consider a set, as for the 11s and 22s (12 & 15s even) they have their virtues which I just love. The bigger 25/30s I don't think I'd touch, I'd rather use the smaller models with a high-end sub. From what I've read they are not great, but no experience so unfair to comment really.

Yeah the M's are ok if you haven't got any epos es's :D The M5i are pretty impressive actually in their own way,

I have 11s, 12s, 14s and 30s. I prefer the 12s to the 11s, and use those on the end of an A&R A60 in my office system. The 14s are on the end of a 32.5/HiCap/250 in a bedroom system, and the 30s on the end of a 250.2 in the lounge.

My "desert island" system would be the 32.5/HiCap/250/14s although I think the 30s are a better speaker. When I auditioned the 30s against the 22s I far, far preferred the 30s.

Very interesting. Some great setups you have there, and lots of love for epos it seems (so do I)

and a varied opinion on to the earlier preference of 11s to 12s, what areas do you think the 12s are better? I would love to try both side by side (Im sure I will at some point)

The NAP250 that you have is supposedly the ultimate combo for epos, but unfortunately I've never had the pleasure of hearing with that particular amp :( But they sound pretty damn good on my supernait now tho.
 
Very interesting. Some great setups you have there, and lots of love for epos it seems (so do I)

and a varied opinion on to the earlier preference of 11s to 12s, what areas do you think the 12s are better? I would love to try both side by side (Im sure I will at some point)

The NAP250 that you have is supposedly the ultimate combo for epos, but unfortunately I've never had the pleasure of hearing with that particular amp :( But they sound pretty damn good on my supernait now tho.
I wondered if I would be asked that! I can't claim a good enough auditory memory to remember that far back. I honestly can't remember why I preferred the 12s. I put them both on dedicated stands on the end of a 250 and spent some hours listening. But that was 10 years ago now. Maybe I'd choose differently today.

The 11s are now with my brother who had a choice of those and a spare pair of 14s I have in a similar demo. Chalk and cheese. He preferred the 11s, I would have picked the 14s.

I spent four hours at a dealer swapping between the 22s, 25s and 30s on the end of a 32.5/HC/250. The 22s are beguiling but, to me, had a slight forward presentation of vocals (ditto the 25s) making them very engaging. The 30s appear flatter, and IMO, "truer". If and when they die I'll struggle to replace them.

In my HT system, where the 30s live, the setup gelled when I swapped the centre speaker I had for one of my spare 14s. It was only then that I "got" that the centre needs to be similarly voiced to the mains to achieve a balanced setup.
 
I wondered if I would be asked that! I can't claim a good enough auditory memory to remember that far back. I honestly can't remember why I preferred the 12s. I put them both on dedicated stands on the end of a 250 and spent some hours listening. But that was 10 years ago now. Maybe I'd choose differently today.

The 11s are now with my brother who had a choice of those and a spare pair of 14s I have in a similar demo. Chalk and cheese. He preferred the 11s, I would have picked the 14s.

I spent four hours at a dealer swapping between the 22s, 25s and 30s on the end of a 32.5/HC/250. The 22s are beguiling but, to me, had a slight forward presentation of vocals (ditto the 25s) making them very engaging. The 30s appear flatter, and IMO, "truer". If and when they die I'll struggle to replace them.

In my HT system, where the 30s live, the setup gelled when I swapped the centre speaker I had for one of my spare 14s. It was only then that I "got" that the centre needs to be similarly voiced to the mains to achieve a balanced setup.

lol, that's great, maybe cos they were newer, and you had the newer better thing in mind :) I enjoyed reading Spectre's #29 thoughts and evaluation on the two, that was interesting.

Epos will always be one of my favourite speakers, but some people don't like them which I find unusual, they are very demanding on partnering equipment though, if things are not right there I could completely understand it. But everyone has a preference anyway. I'm a big fan of ProAc's as well, and they are very different speakers. One has no(minimal) crossovers and the other has a crossover which gets more attention than any other part of the speaker (so I've been told by ProAc).

You have a superb set up there by the sounds of things, and don't worry I'm sure your es30s will be good for another 30years + yet :) Enjoy them! Would have loved to have been in the demo room when you was switching between the 3 before deciding on the es30s as well. Thanks for the interesting read.
 
I have the Epos M15 floorstands and I´m quite happy.I was thinking replace them with the B&W CM1 , but I kept the Epos.
 
I have the Epos M15 floorstands and I´m quite happy.I was thinking replace them with the B&W CM1 , but I kept the Epos.

Ive had a few sets of es15's they are great speakers. B&W at a similar price level are good speakers also though, CDMs and P series come to mind, but they do sound quite a bit different.

 
Epos M15s were my very first Epos speakers. They were pretty good sounding, but they were quickly replaced by es-22s which were a massive upgrade. The M15s were made in the far east, and were not in the same league build wise, let alone sound wise. It would be interesting to hear the newest line of Epos speakers.

Also, Totem is building a line of speakers, I believe the Element series, with just a capacitor protecting the tweeter. Might be interesting, since they also build their own drivers for this line as far as I know.

BB
 
Epos M15s were my very first Epos speakers. They were pretty good sounding, but they were quickly replaced by es-22s which were a massive upgrade. The M15s were made in the far east, and were not in the same league build wise, let alone sound wise. It would be interesting to hear the newest line of Epos speakers.

Also, Totem is building a line of speakers, I believe the Element series, with just a capacitor protecting the tweeter. Might be interesting, since they also build their own drivers for this line as far as I know.

BB

Totem, hmm, that could be very interesting.

And if your talking about the newest line of epos, then they are decent speakers but 'nothing' like the old. For me personally epos best magic is all in the es series, this speaker has yet to be bettered, its not perfect by any means but its a very unique speaker I think. Fantastic detail, separated and atmospheric sound. But on a real budget though if you wanted something similar Mordaunt Shorts MS's come close to the presentation.
 
I think the Epos M has the ES characteristics.Or no?I´d never had the chance to hear the ES serie.

The only Ms Ive heard a lot is the M5i. They are similar, but these are smaller speakers than the 11/12's, very solidly made and I'm not sure if the 5's actually have a proper crossover unlike the 11,12s. They do have a similar presentation though, just not as good as the 11s and 22s I own. More of a budget speaker sound but still very revealing and open, just not as refined and as much finesse if you ask me.

But all the M's were never a radical departure from the es series. epos now are a totally different animal, soft dome tweeters and crossovers even I believe.
 
The only Ms Ive heard a lot is the M5i. They are similar, but these are smaller speakers than the 11/12's, very solidly made and I'm not sure if the 5's actually have a proper crossover unlike the 11,12s. They do have a similar presentation though, just not as good as the 11s and 22s I own. More of a budget speaker sound but still very revealing and open, just not as refined and as much finesse if you ask me.

But all the M's were never a radical departure from the es series. epos now are a totally different animal, soft dome tweeters and crossovers even I believe.


from the spec sheet for M5i & M12i

M5i
"Bass driver crosses over with three components in a 2nd order filter. Tweeter has four components in a 3rd order filter at 3 kHz crossover, using film-caps and a metal oxide resistor." I think the M12i is much simpler

M12i
"Mid Bass driver crossover is by mechanical design and without electrical network. Tweeter AC coupled with polypropylene capacitor and metal oxide resistor 6dB per octave at 5 kHz"

I have the M5i and a very good speaker considering how small it really is, weighs a ton, nothing budget about the sound I think. I would like to hear the M12i to see how it compares to the M5i esp seeing as though the crossovers are completely different

re the i series. I think they departed from the earlier ones when it came to measurement in that some reviewers noted a fall in the prescence region so felt they werent balanced: one review noted though that there was an off axis flare ( to use his word ) in that region that balanced the on axis and only in large rooms or small ones over damped would there be a problem. They sound fine in my small room
 
I would like to listen the new Epos, do you know if they are better or just different?I would like to listen the K1.

I have heard! I dont think they are even a shadow on their former speakers, I don't like them at all. But they are not bad speakers, just something that has absolutely no appeal for me, and they don't sound like anything special (to me) as the old epos do.

from the spec sheet for M5i & M12i

M5i
"Bass driver crosses over with three components in a 2nd order filter. Tweeter has four components in a 3rd order filter at 3 kHz crossover, using film-caps and a metal oxide resistor." I think the M12i is much simpler

M12i
"Mid Bass driver crossover is by mechanical design and without electrical network. Tweeter AC coupled with polypropylene capacitor and metal oxide resistor 6dB per octave at 5 kHz"

I have the M5i and a very good speaker considering how small it really is, weighs a ton, nothing budget about the sound I think. I would like to hear the M12i to see how it compares to the M5i esp seeing as though the crossovers are completely different

Yeah, I thought I read the M5i was more of a full crossover affair, but it still sounds epos es'y, it's not a bad speaker! and as you say its very heavily built!

M12i is more of a proper epos, but can't comment on the sound as I've never owned them (wouldn't mind trying them tho). But going on the M5i's just from the construction I just don't think the M12s are going to be as good as the earlier es series, I just think they tried to over design an already good design.
 
from the spec sheet for M5i & M12i

M5i
"Bass driver crosses over with three components in a 2nd order filter. Tweeter has four components in a 3rd order filter at 3 kHz crossover, using film-caps and a metal oxide resistor." I think the M12i is much simpler

M12i
"Mid Bass driver crossover is by mechanical design and without electrical network. Tweeter AC coupled with polypropylene capacitor and metal oxide resistor 6dB per octave at 5 kHz"

I have the M5i and a very good speaker considering how small it really is, weighs a ton, nothing budget about the sound I think. I would like to hear the M12i to see how it compares to the M5i esp seeing as though the crossovers are completely different

re the i series. I think they departed from the earlier ones when it came to measurement in that some reviewers noted a fall in the prescence region so felt they werent balanced: one review noted though that there was an off axis flare ( to use his word ) in that region that balanced the on axis and only in large rooms or small ones over damped would there be a problem. They sound fine in my small room


on a question of ageing do film-caps as in the M5i last a long time or need replacing sooner or later? presumably they dont dry out?
 
I must read older topics through.

I'm now using ES14 MK1's and Exposure XV integrated + Audiolab 8000CD. Sound is quite good but maybe lacking speed and air. I think my speakers could be at the end of their days?:confused: I have owned many Epos speakers and ES14 are, in someway, the best but in someway they are not.

I remember that listened to M5's shortly couple of years ago and they have speed, snap and very fun to listen. Made my feet tapping easily. If bass quantity is enough they could be fine.:) Sadle they are too small ST12 stands...

I would say the issue you describe is more down to the amp. Whilst the Exposure XV is an excellent integrated amp, the Epos ES14's demand a pre/power combo of some standing to really sing.

I originally used Exposure XVII & XVIII with my Epos ES14's, which was good and obviously has more grunt than the XV, but when I added a second XVIII, it transformed the speakers, they opened, the bass became a lot better controlled, and the midrange, which is one of the Epos best characteristics, came alive.

I heard the M5's against my ES14's, when powered by those amps and they weren't in the same league.

The ES14 are a fine speaker, but need to be driven correctly to get the best out of them.

Ironically, I heard them on a Naim 82/HC/250 combo and they didn't work as well as with the Exposure amps. Irony, because they were designed and voiced using Naim amplification, specifically the 250 I understand.
 
well well well. I just had a shocking experience . Accidently tuned to Radio 3 and they had a live organ recital - not something I would listen to as my system not designed for that - Epos M5i speakers. But I was SHOCKED how much tuneful bass these little speakers could produce, I had to turn the volume down fearing they would disturb the people downstairs. I am sure that much bigger speakers would do a better job and go even lower but i didnt feel short changed by what I heard
 
well well well. I just had a shocking experience . Accidently tuned to Radio 3 and they had a live organ recital - not something I would listen to as my system not designed for that - Epos M5i speakers. But I was SHOCKED how much tuneful bass these little speakers could produce, I had to turn the volume down fearing they would disturb the people downstairs. I am sure that much bigger speakers would do a better job and go even lower but i didnt feel short changed by what I heard

Yes, they are fantastic little speakers the m5i, I'd find it hard to part with mine.
 
well I finally got my self a pair of Epos M12i cheap ( £155 ) from Ebay in very good condition. After letting them settle down I cant see they sound much different from the M5i. Quite an achievment given they have different cross over arrangements, the M5i a rather complicated one, the M12i just a cap and a resistor. They also have the same sensitivity. Maybe the bass is a bit deeper and therefore better defined but even the small M5i can fill a ( small) room if the bass is there in the first place. Does anyone here know of comparative reviews? It seems the real difference is that the M12i can handle amps 50 up to 150 watts whereas the M5i is for 25 to 100 watts.

Thats interesting, the m5i really are a great speaker and a compact size, I also find them a lot less fussy than the other epos like the es series, as in you can use them with a wider range of amps/sources/rooms/positions and they still sound good. But I would give the ultimate finesse to the larger es (and possibly 'm' models) given the right circumstances. But as you say the crossover is supposedly more complex with the 5s.

Not seen many reviews for the i's, I don't think they had as much of a run life as all the models that proceeded them.
 
If I should enter the Epos waggon again it would be originals only

1. ES11 and replace the caps
2. ES12 as above
3. ES14 only if room and amp to fit

Epos stands a must
 


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