Epos ES11 vs. ES12 vs M12/.2
- Thread starter alspe
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The es 22's are fantastic. Had a pair since 98. I much prefer them to the 14's I had way back. Integrated into my room better despite the deeper ( and tighter) bass. Got them set up for this weekend ( cds3/52/135's). Even last night with 52/135's only powered up from cold for 1 hour, all sounded superb.
Also keepers.
NaimClontarf
pfm Member
I agree with this; the ES 11s at the end of a Nait 2 sound exceptional at low levels....
Keramat8guy
Member
My ES11s (with open frame stands) are great with Exposure VII/XII/biamped Super VIIIs, connected with Exposure cable and brilliant with a Meracus Intrare (a German Integrated 50 wpc amp) which are connected with Chord Epic cable.
Great bass in my 3m x 10m home office, pulled almost halfway into the room. Really satisfyingly involving with with any type of music especially my favourite Little Feat, Steely Dan and prog rock.
The treble's fine, a tad restrained...not as sharp as my Royd Abbots, which I change up with it depending on the music's recording quality. The mids are clear too, and well proportioned with everything else.
I'd like to try the ES14's some day soon.
Great bass in my 3m x 10m home office, pulled almost halfway into the room. Really satisfyingly involving with with any type of music especially my favourite Little Feat, Steely Dan and prog rock.
The treble's fine, a tad restrained...not as sharp as my Royd Abbots, which I change up with it depending on the music's recording quality. The mids are clear too, and well proportioned with everything else.
I'd like to try the ES14's some day soon.
I owned ES12's first and liked them a lot, so much in fact that they had me wondering how good the original Robin Marshal ES11's were. I managed to pick up a pair that were cosmetically near perfect (on Google images they are the first you'll see) so I was able to make a direct comparison between them.
The two speakers have an almost identical tonal balance, legendary midrange as you'd expect, but the ES12 having a slightly fuller and softer bass. Compared to the ES11's though they do not resolve as much inner detail, do not image as precisely, nor do they sound as rhythmically fast. Sample variation perhaps? Well no as I bought a second pair of ES12's in order to get some dedicated open frame stands and again I felt they were actually a step backwards from the ES11, I heard the exact same deficiencies in comparison to the ES11. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of the Epos stands, they really tighten up the sound and make them a much more focussed sounding speaker, together they work as a system.
ES12 on top of Epos ES11. ES11 sitting on their dedicated stands.
The two speakers have an almost identical tonal balance, legendary midrange as you'd expect, but the ES12 having a slightly fuller and softer bass. Compared to the ES11's though they do not resolve as much inner detail, do not image as precisely, nor do they sound as rhythmically fast. Sample variation perhaps? Well no as I bought a second pair of ES12's in order to get some dedicated open frame stands and again I felt they were actually a step backwards from the ES11, I heard the exact same deficiencies in comparison to the ES11. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of the Epos stands, they really tighten up the sound and make them a much more focussed sounding speaker, together they work as a system.
ES12 on top of Epos ES11. ES11 sitting on their dedicated stands.
David regarding the ES14 bass, I had the exact same experience when comparing them side by side with the ES11 and the 14's I owned were top notch, this is exactly why I let them go. Many will argue against this but I know what I was hearing, there was no problem with my amplification not controlling the ES14's.
Caledon1297
pfm Member
ES11s boring?
With a good source and amplification (Naim in my case), they remain one of the most expressive, engaging and musically enjoyable 'speakers I've heard. Superb!
drummerman
pfm Member
Can't help with comparisons but I just sold a pair of 12.2's. Using them on my cyrus system they have a somewhat over damped bass. Very tight, very fast. Not surprising seeing just how small the port is in comparison to others. Good tweeter, heavy duty mid/woofer in solid cast chassis. Fantastic build and they play loud.
Need an amplifier with lowish damping factor. Naim or even Valves as easy to drive.
Need an amplifier with lowish damping factor. Naim or even Valves as easy to drive.
JezmondTutu
pfm Member
Interestingly to update my previous post on this thread I now have mk1 ES14's which I've never heard before and I'd put them well above my previous ES11's in pretty much every respect. The treble is far more open than the 11, but also refined too, I always felt this was the weak area of the 11's, in that treble sounded rolled off. Bass as you expect is better. The only caveat is I have better sources and the power amp has stepped up from a NAP250 to the Avondale hybrid one I have now. Oh, it's also in a different house!
topa
Sans CDPs
Probably the amps.
I have the "recommended" combo of an Onix21 and the ES11 in the office, which sounds quite nice.
If I hook the ES11 up to my Exposure 23/28 setup, they are totally transformed and sound spectacular.
PS: Off topic, but I heard KanIIs driven by Klimax500 once, you wouldn't believe it.
I have the "recommended" combo of an Onix21 and the ES11 in the office, which sounds quite nice.
If I hook the ES11 up to my Exposure 23/28 setup, they are totally transformed and sound spectacular.
PS: Off topic, but I heard KanIIs driven by Klimax500 once, you wouldn't believe it.
JezmondTutu
pfm Member
It was a NAP250, is now a variation of Avondale with Nap250 boards but dual mono. I've also lost the preamp which was a Nac72/Hicap.
I have to say I'm absolutely bowled over by them and am seriously considering selling the Event Opals! They are simply more musical than the Opals with better timing (this is amp/speakers of course) but also have the same amazing midrange. Bass isn't as good and you can hear everything on the Opals but I'm loving the ES14's.
I have to say I'm absolutely bowled over by them and am seriously considering selling the Event Opals! They are simply more musical than the Opals with better timing (this is amp/speakers of course) but also have the same amazing midrange. Bass isn't as good and you can hear everything on the Opals but I'm loving the ES14's.
MVV
pfm Member
You do have the best versions and the glued in bungs. I had them up against Neat Vito SEs with ultimatum drivers that Bob at Neat reckons would be about £3.5 K if he still made them. It wasn't obvious but in the end the treble on the Neats won out.
JezmondTutu
pfm Member
It would seem so as I borrowed mk2 ES14's with dedicated stands and compared them directly to ES11's both with an Onix OA12/SOAP and with my 72/hicap/250 and both myself and the Onix owning mate preferred the 11's.
If we did the test again in my room and with my system, I don't think the 11's would stand a chance - your 14's are really shining. Interestingly I changed my ES11's for Neat Petites but they didn't work after a house change and I then went for Talisman 2's.
I removed the bungs due to my inquisitive nature! On some tracks I prefer no bungs but on some the bass is just too much and lacks definition.
JezmondTutu
pfm Member
Oh, I only bought the 14's to have a play with. No way did I think they might replace the Opals!!
RustyB
Registered Ginga
I removed the bungs due to my inquisitive nature! On some tracks I prefer no bungs but on some the bass is just too much and lacks definition.[/QUOTE]
The amount of ballast will also affect the T2's. I had mine against the wall, they came without bungs and I never felt the need for them.
The amount of ballast will also affect the T2's. I had mine against the wall, they came without bungs and I never felt the need for them.
westsounds
pfm Member
Old thread resurrection forgive me
but a big lover of epos speakers here. I have the es22's, es11s and a set of M5i's also. I was actually thinking of picking up a set of 12's as well to do the direct comparison with the 11s, heard them once at a dealer many years ago and thought they were fantastic but never got around to owning a set. Thought they may have actually been a slight improvement on the 11s but it seems not. And I know what the 11's can do, fantastic speakers! As for the newer M12 onward, no experience of those but it seems they might have lost some of the magic of the earlier designs.