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EPOS ES11; B&W DM2A, DM3; LS3/5A sized speakers

hairyderriere

hairyderriere

pfm Member
Hi all,

Interesting minor experiment this morning. Listening to a couple of Bear McCreary's pieces on the soundtrack to Battlestar Galactica (Series 3, tracks 7, 12 and 12) I notice just how good the EPOS speakers are.

Lined up next to my B&W DM2As, B&W DM3s, and some MHI Evidence speakers, the ES11 seem to be playing in a different league: better image specificity than the MHIs (which sound tonally closed in), as good tone as the DM3s (which have inferior dynamics but still sound beautiful) and, curiously, I find that they have better bass than the DM2As by some way. The ES11s, on their own stands, simply sound more coherent and just as expansive as the DM2As down below. In the mid range (acknowledge the occasional mild mid-range nasality) they are far more open and expressive of timbre. In addition, they retain the musical communicativeness I remember them for.

Hmmm. Has anyone ever compared the ES11s to Stirling V2 LS3/5As? If one takes their respective constraints into account, I wonder how they compare in musical (as opposed to sonic) fidelity? Also, what cabling works well with the ES11s (and the V2s)?

Source today is a Cambridge Audio CD3, a Virtue Audio Audiophile TWO Tripath amp (30V/130W psu), cables are all DNM.
 
Interesting.

I have done similar tests like this using what I thought was a good amp, come to my conclusions and then changed the amp for Radford STA25 III.

Some speakers that I had decided were coloured in the mid using the first amp were fine on the Radford.

It was all a bit confusing.
 
ABR or not, the KEF 104ab always had a better bass than DM2A's IMO, but I'm not surprised the mid is better on the ES11's.

How long are the DNM speaker wires? If more than 5m you'll be getting response changes on the older speakers with complex crossovers, as well as the crossover points altered slightly..
 
The DNM cables are about 3m long on each side.

All of my recent listening has been Tripath-based as I haven't yet properly resurrected the Stereo 20 I have. There is every chance that a decent tube amp will not only show the Virtue a clean pair of heels but also marry much better to the B&Ws which I still hold dear. I am simultaneously assembling a more recent 'classic' valve system but it will be some time before that's together. At that point, the Virtue will either be retired to the living room or to a computer system/edit suite. That said, the DM2As did sound more congested than I would have liked.

Radfordman, have you compared LS3/5As to your B&Ws at home?
 
hairyderriere said:
The DNM cables are about 3m long on each side.

All of my recent listening has been Tripath-based as I haven't yet properly resurrected the Stereo 20 I have. There is every chance that a decent tube amp will not only show the Virtue a clean pair of heels but also marry much better to the B&Ws which I still hold dear. I am simultaneously assembling a more recent 'classic' valve system but it will be some time before that's together. At that point, the Virtue will either be retired to the living room or to a computer system/edit suite. That said, the DM2As did sound more congested than I would have liked.

Radfordman, have you compared LS3/5As to your B&Ws at home?
Click to expand...

My DM2a's are not in the same room as the Chartwell 15 Ohm LS3/5a or LS3/5a clones, so have not really done such an A/B.

I tend to think that my DM2's are slightly better in the mid than the DM2a's, but we are talking small differences.

I remember many years ago sitting the Chartwell LS3/5a's on top of my ESL63's and doing an A/B. It was surprising that the overall balance of the two systems was very close. One wondered if the exta size and expense of the 63's was worth it.

It was over 20 years ago I bought the Chartwells for £90 and the 63's for £800. Both were second hand but almost mint. Today, I suppose that the Chartwells are worh more than double the 63's, crazy.

My LS3/5a clones are very good, cabinets are slightly larger than 5a, better damped, bass is better than the Chartwells probably because of this.
 
I have the DM2 (1st version) ... I have found that they are very sensitive when it comes to placement (mine are more than 1m away from the back wall)
 
Radfordman said:
I remember many years ago sitting the Chartwell LS3/5a's on top of my ESL63's and doing an A/B. It was surprising that the overall balance of the two systems was very close. One wondered if the exta size and expense of the 63's was worth it.

It was over 20 years ago I bought the Chartwells for £90 and the 63's for £800. Both were second hand but almost mint. Today, I suppose that the Chartwells are worh more than double the 63's, crazy.
Click to expand...

I was wondering something similar today. It led to thoughts of B&W DM70s, ESL57s and dipole subs, LS3/5A V2 Cicables and dipole subs and even Lowther TP1s. What a daydream!

The output of the DM2As bass was substantial. More substantial than the ES11s. And it is making me re-assess my DM3s. But the ES11s simply sounded more coherent, better integrated and was less 'in the way'. Both the Epos and the B&W speakers are about 1.5 to 1.8m from the back wall and about 1.8m from side walls. Perhaps the B&Ws need heavier stands than the Spendor-like models on which they currently stand. But if I like the DM3s tone (which I do) but am getting less bass from them than either the DM2As or the ES11s then perhaps I have been going about this the wrong way.

Do any of us Pink Fish have a vintage meet or showdown? I'd love to hear all of these speakers in the same place.
 
hairyderriere said:
Perhaps the B&Ws need heavier stands than the Spendor-like models on which they currently stand. But if I like the DM3s tone (which I do) but am getting less bass from them than either the DM2As or the ES11s then perhaps I have been going about this the wrong way.
Click to expand...

my DM2's are on low stands .... I found that by placing a 30mm thick granite block (cut to size from a stone merchant) ontop of the speaker cabinets, makes a huge improvement

first try with something heavy (like a few old telephone directories or similar, and see if you hear a difference)
 
you couldn't get something much more different than ES11's and LS3/5a's. Still, if your source is the battlestar galactica soundtrack, whatever floats your boat!

As for cables wot work with ES11's, Naim's NACA5 should be trialled.

And you're right, the ES11 stands are the ones to use.
 
Rico said:
you couldn't get something much more different than ES11's and LS3/5a's. Still, if your source is the battlestar galactica soundtrack, whatever floats your boat!

As for cables wot work with ES11's, Naim's NACA5 should be trialled.

And you're right, the ES11 stands are the ones to use.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply.

I have many boats and lots of things float them. My source is good music, from wherever it comes, be it Kodo, Kasabian or Klemperer; Pastorius, Police or Poulenc. I am not some kind of musical anorexic on a restricted-genre diet.

I wonder if the ES11 and the LS3/5A are comparable in the musical insight the convey? It seems the easiest thing in the world for audiophiles to detect sonic differences but far fewer are adept at detecting musical and communicative prowess. There are almost certain to be presentational differences between these 2 speakers. But does that mean the music is less well served by one of them?

I'll see if I can find some of the Naim cable cheaply to experiment. Cheers.
 
I would suggest they are a more kikurangi (blue) cheese vs well, chalk. they both have their strengths.

in the small speaker area (I haven't owned LS3/5a's, do know them - have owned ES11's, Kytes, Kans)... I prefer Kans or Naim nSats.
 
They are both bloody difficult to break.

The tweeters in the ES11's tend to give out first in a NAP250 demolition Derby though as overdriving LS3/5a's causes the bass-mid to hit the end stops with a horrible crack.

Hope this helps . . .
 
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