ff1d1l
pfm Member
Corbyn? Noooo.......!
Enough is Enough
- Thread starter Seanm
- Start date
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Assuming they think it's even vaguely plausible.
Tony L
Administrator
Has anyone explained MMT to Mick Lynch yet?! Given the “left” we have we are likely going to have to stay firmly rooted in the Tory establishment narrative.
PS I’d be happy to see some real movement back away from the corruption and grift of the current Tory oligarchy, but I suspect even that is out of reach given how timid, conservative and fearful of democracy the Labour Party actually are.
PS I’d be happy to see some real movement back away from the corruption and grift of the current Tory oligarchy, but I suspect even that is out of reach given how timid, conservative and fearful of democracy the Labour Party actually are.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
And that’s precisely why extra-parliamentary movements such as this has the potential to become are so important.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
I suspect 'all of the benefits and none of the consequences for the Voter' would cause a lot of Voter skepticism to be put on hold.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
The problem isn't so much the electorate as the media, I suspect. And then the electorate is swayed away from 'ooh, this sounds great' to 'ooh, the DM says this sounds too good to be true, so I'm afraid it'll send the economy down the toilet and I'll be even more screwed than I am now'.
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
F1d1l asked if I could suggest my own name for EisE - I went with Discontent UK 2022 - which prompted this from you:
I replied to you with EiE won't exist in six months time (neatly side-stepping the calendar restriction) 'cos Truss will call a GE which Labour under Sir Keir will win - you then asked.
Because I very politely answered the question you asked of me.
I replied to you with EiE won't exist in six months time (neatly side-stepping the calendar restriction) 'cos Truss will call a GE which Labour under Sir Keir will win - you then asked.
Because I very politely answered the question you asked of me.
Ponty
pfm Member
Of course they do, although it’s difficult when they’re still virtually zero. As I’ve said, in previous times of high inflation (and this one is partly caused by too much cheap money and QE for too long), IR’s have been raised to at least the level of inflation. Not much chance of that with our debt levels so inflation will be with us for some time to come IMHO.
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
WE need full nationalisation immediately and massive subsidy of bills to keep them down to where they were before all this palava. The utilities should now run a permanent huge loss. Massive taxes on oligarchs etc and companies like amazon and google should pay for it all.
Meanwhile fcuk the environment and climate warming for now and reopen coal mines etc. After hundreds of years of pollution and climate warming a few brief years/a decade of taking it back to 70's emissions levels ain't going to make much difference. The short term need to prevent people freezing etc takes precedence.
Meanwhile the west in general needs to stop pussyfooting around in their help for Ukraine and give them the weapons to ensure a swift and decisive victory. That there is not a complete trade embargo on Russia is disgusting.
If Ukraine does not get the long range cruise missiles etc etc needed to destroy all Russian tank factories, missile plants, airbases, barracks throughout Russia then this war will likely go on as it is for years as a war of attrition....
Meanwhile fcuk the environment and climate warming for now and reopen coal mines etc. After hundreds of years of pollution and climate warming a few brief years/a decade of taking it back to 70's emissions levels ain't going to make much difference. The short term need to prevent people freezing etc takes precedence.
Meanwhile the west in general needs to stop pussyfooting around in their help for Ukraine and give them the weapons to ensure a swift and decisive victory. That there is not a complete trade embargo on Russia is disgusting.
If Ukraine does not get the long range cruise missiles etc etc needed to destroy all Russian tank factories, missile plants, airbases, barracks throughout Russia then this war will likely go on as it is for years as a war of attrition....
Somafunk
pfm Member
You’ll have to remove Olaf Scholz (German chancellor) first, he’s starting to really ****ing annoy me.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
You are Liz Truss and I claim my £5!
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
Or growing the economy.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
If that assumption is that taxes do fund spending then that is logically not true, and functionally not true.
If you’ve already made your assumptions, not sure why you’re now asking me questions. But if you do believe that taxes fund spending, then to increase spending you have to increase taxation (or borrow more, or sell off assets, which is unsustainable in any economic model). But increasing tax to fund spending is as heterodox as saying taxes don’t fund spending. The currency orthodox position determines that tax does fund spending and any spending is a bad thing that causes inflation and stifles the economy. Most relevant to this point is that Tax rises are the slippery slope to totalitarianism. It is an orthodoxy that both Labour and Tories subscribe to.
While I am happy to go with the heterodox option to tax the rich on the grounds that at least it isn’t orthodoxy, the only party explicitly promising that position is the Greens.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Absolutely. The two go together
Maybe she'll reopen the pits just so she can continue the Thatcher cosplay and close then down again!
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
How very dare you!
It's about to win the scum party leader election and we will then have a PM so much worse than either bozo or even thatcher as to make comparison worthless. I guess we all knew there was a good chance of much worse than bozo as his replacement. The hope is this turd will render the scum party unelectable for decades.... some hope though as they should be unelectable purely on their past history. Crap as Starmer is the fact that labour is not at least 80% ahead in the polls is shocking and a terrible indictment of the electorate.
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Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Sorry to repeat myself, but my questions are based on the assumption that taxes do not fund spending. I cannot make it any clearer than that.
The point is that when considering the shared wealth dimension to social justice, "taxes do not fund spending" and "tax the rich" are contradictory positions. Do you agree?
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
The thing is, though, that neither Tories nor Labour subscribe to the 'taxes do not fund spending' viewpoint (at least, not in their public utterances). So any movement or pressure group that wants to influence either party has to do so from within that party's expressed ideology. I'm not sure if EiE are in the 'taxes do not fund spending' camp but even if they are, to get the attention of the Labour Party, they have to start from a known position.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Tell the average person in the street that taxes don't fund spending and I suspect they'll raise an eyebrow and take whatever else you have to say with a very large pinch of salt.