I never thought that early digital was that bad, I think the problem was that these new devices were put into analogue orientated systems.
End Game Digital (2023)
- Thread starter Alex S
- Start date
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Can you explain a bit Fergus? I'm not really sure what constitutes and analog or digital oriented system. Is it to do with how the amp and speakers are voiced?
Back in the day I went into my regular dealers store and they had just received their first shipment of CD players. One was immediately put into their dem system that featured turntable, cassette deck and tuner and it didn’t sound that great. A week later after some experimenting with amplifiers they had setup a more sympathetic system and it sounded much better.
chartz
If it’s broke fix it!
The problem was mainly with the rather dull cartridges that conditioned how whole systems were adjusted. Introducing digital that had no dip in its response caused many bad reviews because the other components sort of compensated the flaws of the front end.
That was my experience too.
That was my experience too.
gustav_errata
pfm Member
There was another problem that recording started to go digital around the same time but people generally weren't yet compensating for the difference by adding analog (or analog-like) saturation to the signal. This, indeed, can sound cold and brittle. Nowadays productions are slathered in saturation. So it's not necessarily that the playback improved but rather that production methods (across pretty much all genres) evolved to retain an analog-like sound on digital replay. This, of course, makes a mockery of anyone thinking they're getting a more hifi view of the original performance by going digital.
camverton
pfm Member
Quite so, and that’s why these tedious crusaders like it, it gives the results that confirm their beliefs.
camverton
pfm Member
So now you’re accusing anyone who doesn’t share your beliefs xenophobic. Shameful, a new low.
tuga
Legal Alien
Or maybe analogue orientated ears?
camverton
pfm Member
Very likely. Perhaps I didn’t like analogue much but I enjoyed the change to digital straight away. That digital replay has now matured and, with suitable equipment, giving excellent sound quality is all to the better. I went from Garrard 401, SME arm and v15 and dynavector cartridges to Philips CD 104, all into Quad amplification and LS3 5a, and a little bit late Quad 57. It seems a long time ago now!
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
I would have thought that objective tests are more of a threat to belief confirmation. I think unsighted level matched comparisons are very useful but I agree that double blind is over the top and difficult to arrange.
To be fair he never said that. I think DACs are incredibly good now for little money. I personally wouldn’t buy a cheap Chinese (or other) electrical products but not everyone can afford high end gear.
One thing for sure, you don’t have to spend big money to get great results. My front end is probably 3 times less in terms of RRP than previous but sounds better.
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
Absolutely this, state of the art conversion is not expensive wherever it is made , I do completely understand the pride of ownership factor but in terms of sound quality alone…
Keith
Rubbish!!! What else did we have to compare it to?
tuga
Legal Alien
Live music?
camverton
pfm Member
Agree. I also from time to time conduct non electronic tests, as in REW and blind level matched testing which is good at telling one that things “sound” similar but not which device will lead to long term enjoyment of music. What is wearisome to me is having a hobbyist dealer with what appears to be a grudge against the hifi industry using limited blind tests to weaponise his crusade. It is surely best to let tests and listening complement each other to come to as informed an opinion as possible.
Hopefully the crusade will fail otherwise we might have no choice but to buy chinese brands. As things are we have choice, which is good, albeit buyer does need to beware. Nothing against chinese brands btw, I use a topping D10s as usb to spdif converter and a SHD for handling crossovers and dirac processing. Both are OK but their analogue outputs sound rather irritating besides a decent DAC.
To be fair to purite he has few hifi forums left from which to set up his soap box, having been banned from many, and his posts here are normally but a shadow of his former “style”, but accusing someone of xenophobia really does his crusade no good at all! Again to be fair, when I spoke to him some years ago he sounded a charming, decent sort of chap and at the time I sympathised with his tales of the whys and wherefores of his banning from the Wam (the one before last!). I wouldn’t sympathise now though!
Tony L
Administrator
Advertising strategies can be interesting. One can apparently buy a £4k DAC from a salesman who thinks a £40 Chinese eBay cheapo is just as good assuming one specific website says so. Some manufacturers apparently even allow their premium products to be sold this way!