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Elsdon Wonder Audio IC-25 Interconnect Cables

Discussion in 'audio' started by CliffB, Feb 22, 2021.

  1. Heckyman

    Heckyman pfm Member

    To clarify, I wasn't criticising dealers, least of all Alan / Colin...just pointing out that if I "buy" something on 30 days terms I am quite likely to keep it unless it's unexpectedly and clearly worse than what I already have.

    That's why tours are so great, no pressure.

    It could be just me...
     
    ABCaudio and Tarzan like this.
  2. Maybe its a personal thang, for me if its on trial, its on trial. I have no issues returning somethings or feel obliged to buy it if it doesn't hit the mark. If I didn't I'd have more kit than most retailers!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
    ABCaudio likes this.
  3. Amber Audio

    Amber Audio This is the Day

    Personally I think there is a difference between a tour and a 30 day sale/return, I am sure I would not have tried the LS-40 unless it was on the tour, despite deciding not to buy it has given me the confidence to try the LS-80 on a sale/return basis.

    I always feel some sort of sales pressure on myself when I have taken home loan/trials even if it is minimal/subconscious, the nature of a tour means that pressure isn't there. I find a week is long enough to do a decent evaluation, at the start I swap over several times, then use the items for the next few days then at the end do another flip over. If I miss the new item it’s a candidate for a longer demo on sale/return or has turned into a sale already.
     
    OldSkool, ABCaudio and Heckyman like this.
  4. ex brickie

    ex brickie pfm Member

    I agree @Amber Audio . I’ve had other cables from another company recently and they were really excellent with me and no pressure to keep. But because they were such nice guys I did feel guilty sending them back :confused:. Having said that it wasn’t a case of buying nothing - I have bought other cables from them very happily.
     
    ABCaudio likes this.
  5. CliffB

    CliffB pfm Member

    Apple autocorrect is either daft enough to be unsure of “Wonfor,” or smart enough to appreciate the cables!:D
     
    ABCaudio and the caretaker like this.
  6. CliffB

    CliffB pfm Member

    Hi Colin,

    I have a couple of questions for you if you are ok with disclosing enough to answer. It may be of use to those looking at trialling the interconnect, to get the best from them. Or you can just tell me I’m going mad!

    When I evaluated the second generation IC-25, I noticed a definite improvement over the first generation cable that I would describe as incremental, when using both interconnect cables with my first generation LS-25 in the system. The new cable was a bit more dynamic and bold and noise floor seemed lower.

    However, when I popped in the LS-40 there was a much more dramatic improvement in sound quality when partnered with the second generation IC-25 that definitely fell into the “wow”category. It seemed as if there was some sort of synergy happening that was more than the sum of the parts. I certainly wasn’t expecting this at all, but recall it really making me sit up and take notice. The same was true with the IC-25 and LS-80 I now have.

    So my questions are;

    Is there a technical explanation as to why I should have noticed this difference in synergy between different generations of interconnect and speaker cables?

    Do the new IC-25 only give of their very best when the system is outfitted with the latest EWA speaker cables?

    Many thanks,

    Cliff
     
    ABCaudio likes this.
  7. Heckyman

    Heckyman pfm Member

    Hi Cliff,
    Hope you don't mind a non technical reply...I think it's simple, the better your speakers, speaker cables and amp, the bigger difference you will hear in interconnect quality (assuming there is in fact a difference to be heard).
     
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  8. CJ14

    CJ14 Retired

    Hi Cliff and Gang.

    As by now you may have realized I do like to experiment to learn and some time have loud bangs.
    The ISS1 IC-25 was very good but the conducting material and the ratio of dialectic constant was no spot on or we should say not quite right for me. Do not misunderstand me it was a better spec than cable I did in my past but I wanted more and also more flexible not a stiff rod. But not increase the cost to silly prices just for adding a Ag plated plug.

    Now this next bit is going to raise a few loud voices and good on them it will prove how little they understand PSU designs.
    As you and other will understand we here use 220-240VAC ish, at 50Hz or even 110-120VAC at 60Hz and a few at 110V 400Hz 3 phase. So with that thought driving a load is no problem as long as the device does not require energy in short sharp burst.
    Because the main cable in the the standard IEC format has a large capacitance and is standard Cu material. This also has a problem at certain given rejection and absorption frequencies this can often be referred to as RFI,EMC or a bloody nightmare.
    So for those Radio Hams out there a 2M length is ideal for 144MHz and harmonic of that thus being a fantastic aerial (some light reading https://www.antenna-theory.com/tutorial/electromagnetics/capacitance.php)
    That is why some IEC cable have lumps in them it is normally a Ferrite based material. And at the most sensitive or radiating end of the wire.
    Now as some of you reading this may recall I did a bit of work for another company and wanted to solve this problem , I did work it out but making it and the very special tooling needed was silly price. And with the huge hike in price by this company and there distributor would have made it cheaper to by a Tesla car than a 1M IEC. But this left me with a problem like a fool who trusted so called friend and to be honest to honour his faith in me we produced this patent, more reading sorry. (https://patents.google.com/patent/GB2527777B/en) so this method was out for EWA and Alan. Back to chemistry we go, there are many magnetic materials but not all will bound with standard PVC and hardly any with PTFE and allow you to add a die. And in the case of the above patent a big horrid job with lots of problems.
    Now you have all heard of the great man Faraday (my hero) yep you guess it more reading (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday) and is famous evil beast cage, ok read on. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage)
    And we also need engineers of the past (Yesterday Channel) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell's_equations) and my other Hero and not he over priced car (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla). and you need to read this to complete the job. Well not quite you also need under the theory of electron drag and dielectric properties and a rare subject by my dear friend Dr David Yurth on Phitons and Torsion Fields., and that Irish Magic is not used at all sorry guys. (just some extra reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litz_wire)

    (Lockdown boredom this will fix it honest) ;)

    OK digest this then we moved to part 2

    Sorry about the Grammar and the poor spelling but some of you will understand my dyslexia and autism can be a pain, and thanks Alan and Alan for you kind patients. Love you both, or the the Daffs are doing great.
     
  9. Awesome, thanks Colin. From one dyslexic to another, it wasn't difficult to read at all :)
     
    ABCaudio likes this.
  10. the caretaker

    the caretaker pfm Member

    Heckeyman, I couldn't agree more with you..a man after my own heart..if I had a heart to give, unfortunately the harsh mistress ' hifi' took it many years ago..along with most of my money! and by the same token better quality equipment will show the limitations in inferior interconnects assuming there is one? But why would anyone use such inferior cables on such good quality equipment? I find this quite baffling and perplexing but strangely not surprising! Lol
     
    ABCaudio likes this.
  11. Heckyman

    Heckyman pfm Member

    ...it's a balancing act between the cables and components, right?

    I think the takeaway is that when you try either a new cable or component and it doesn't perform quite as well as you'd hoped/expected, the "problem" may well lie elsewhere.
     
    ABCaudio likes this.
  12. CliffB

    CliffB pfm Member

    Thanks a lot Colin. I wouldn’t pretend to be knowledgable enough to understand what you wrote in much depth, but will follow the links to enhance what I already know about these science greats. The English was ok for me and easier than the science!:) Ha
     
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  13. Heckyman

    Heckyman pfm Member

    So to the IC-25...

    Since taking delivery of LS-80s, it became very interesting to try to set up a methodical interconnect test, since the speaker cables are so transparent.

    I managed to set up 2 DACs with about the same output level and overall SQ. This allowed near instant switching between interconnects under test. The test was not blind but I tried to forget which was which. I tried to establish a simple preference for an interconnect over multiple tests and with each DAC.

    Collected some RCAs from other systems / spares box:
    Studio Connections Black Star
    Reference Fidelity Venus
    Atlas Hyper Asymmetrical

    Long story made short, my preferences were pretty much random, especially with those tests I managed to forget which interconnect was which. This was pretty surprising, since I'd previously concluded (in an earlier, less transparent system) that the Atlas was clearly worse.

    Then, another PFM thread reminded me about the benefits of speaker isolation and I put some spare Iso acoustics pucks between my speakers (ATC 19's) and their stands. This cleaned up the sound quite a bit!

    By this time, I was getting exhausted by the methodical tests so only did cursory comparisons. But after the "improvement" to the speakers, I did get the subjective impression the IC-25 might be shading it...or put it another way, I settled down with a big grin... that's what it's all about, :)
     
    ABCaudio likes this.
  14. ABCaudio

    ABCaudio Trade: ABCaudio, representing EWA

    Colin, that's a brilliant effort - well done! Up early again, I see...

    Gentlemen, I guess we can put IC-25 out to demo if there's any appetite for it. I'll see what I can do, but I've a busy week ahead (and I've made rash promises to ship certain things this week, but the build list isn't short).

    Cliff, there are differences between the mk1 & 2 interconnect, but they're fairly subtle as you've seen. Swings and roundabouts... Changes were made to add flexibility (and therefore make them more robust) but improvements were made elsewhere. On balance a better product with better physical characteristics, but the same signature.

    Regarding interconnects in general. I've always found the differences between signal cables an order of magnitude more subtle than those between speaker cables. That's all I need to say on the matter, except I believe IC-25 is an outstanding design and one of my favorite products. It just doesn't slap you in the chops like a speaker cable change.

    I find mains cables a weird one. Some products don't care much, while others can feel twice as powerful. Colin believes the affect of an excellent mains cable to be more significant than any other cable, in the sense that it changes the whole performance of the amplifier. I've learned not to argue with him anymore!

    In other words, we all seek binary yes/no, good/better answers... and there aren't any. It depends on multiples of things that are unique to every system, and that's before we get to individual listeners and personal preferences. This is why I'm cagey when responding to questions.
     
  15. 29mile

    29mile pfm Member

    Colin has made a power cable using IC25 interconnects so there are some family connections - but as he said himself not to be done at home boys and girls !!
     
  16. Where does it say that?
     
  17. ABCaudio

    ABCaudio Trade: ABCaudio, representing EWA

    It doesn't. Not on the website.

    MCS-2.5 is based on part on the IC-25, but with some important changes.
     
    Cereal Killer likes this.
  18. CJ14

    CJ14 Retired

    Firstly it is ideal for lower power product max current of 3Amps.
    Secondly the Common Mode filtering effect is not so good as the big cables.
    Thirdly its max voltage before destruct was only 5,000VAC L-N and 5,000VAC E-N & E-L, the shield voltage to earth was 2500VAC.
    The Conductors is Ag plated Litz. PTFE covered, then PTFE sleved, followed by Magic EWA plastic, then PVC, then earth then shield and the Blue PVC
    It is great for most digital lies playing machines, i.e. DAC, CD, BluRay, DVD etc. :eek:
    We made it over the top so tooling was a one of, but me not to good on production things got the build time a big bit wrong sorry Alan. :)
     
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  19. So today 2x 1.5m MCS-5 EWA mains cables and a 1m EWA USB A-B cable arrived and have been installed. Instant reaction; a full loom does indeed make a subtle to succinct difference / improvement.
    Obviously More time required, but I do like what I'm hearing.
     
    Tarzan likes this.
  20. OK its in the resolution extremes where things are happening; the subtleties of this bring added depth of soundstage and the bass is perhaps a little deeper/bigger too.
    Colour me impressed. There's more information yet sounds smoother and more relaxed.

    I've never believed a power cable could make a difference before, this is the first time I'm actually convinced that it has.

    I've always believed, perceived and experienced a decent USB cable as a good thing.. The EWA USB cable is a very distinct improvement over the standard Lindy USB 2 spec cable.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021

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